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reddit網(wǎng)友：該死。這真是個好問題。老實說，我會對這些（該判死刑的）罪行非常挑剔，但我可以說像反復(fù)猥褻兒童或者戀童癖之類的東西，還有當(dāng)他在獄中康復(fù)失敗的時候，當(dāng)一個人顯然對幫助自己沒有興趣而只關(guān)心傷害別人的時候，我同意死刑。

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If there was a way to make sure that no innocent person is ever executed, would you be for or against the death penalty? Why?

如果有辦法確保沒有無辜的人被執(zhí)行死刑，你會贊成還是反對死刑？為什么？

注：最近一直在看邢偵案件的紀(jì)錄片，彈幕里對于兇手是否應(yīng)該判死刑或者當(dāng)兇手沒有被判死刑時總是會有很大的爭議，所以我也想看看外國人是這么看這個問題的。于是打開Reddit，輸入關(guān)鍵詞，發(fā)現(xiàn)最近正好有一篇爭論死刑的帖子，而且看來他們的分歧也很大，回帖足足有4000多條，一起來看看他們都說了些什么吧。
 

Ignis_Inferno
Damn. That’s a good question. Honestly, I would be really picky about the crimes, but I’d say for. Stuff like repeated child molestation or pedophilia. And only when rehabilitation has failed. When someone clearly has no interest in helping themselves and only cares about hurting others.

該死。這真是個好問題。老實說，我會對這些（該判死刑的）罪行非常挑剔，但我可以說像反復(fù)猥褻兒童或者戀童癖之類的東西，還有當(dāng)他在獄中康復(fù)失敗的時候，當(dāng)一個人顯然對幫助自己沒有興趣而只關(guān)心傷害別人的時候，我同意死刑。

theyusedthelamppost
Yes. Your premise cuts out the only opposition I have to the death penalty.

同意，你的前提消除了我唯一反對死刑的理由。

jangxx
But how do you define 'innocent'? Different countries have different laws and I object to some of them on a moral basis (like criminalising sexual orientation or beliefs). For me, this alone is reason enough to be against all forms of death penalty, simply because I could end up on the wrong side of the law of some countries.

但是你怎么定義‘無辜’呢？不同的國家有不同的法律，我基于道德反對其中一些(比如將性取向或信仰定為犯罪)。對我來說，僅憑這一點就足以反對所有形式的死刑，因為我可能最終會站在某些國家錯誤的法律的一邊。

TheSavior666
I mean, what about the argument that being locked up for the rest of your life is a worse punishment then death?
Cause after death you have no worries. But if you stay locked in prison you are constantly reminded of and being punished for what you did.
I would argue that's worse

我覺得，你余生都被關(guān)起來的說法是否是比死亡更嚴(yán)重的懲罰呢？
因為只要一死你就無憂無慮了。但是，如果你被關(guān)在監(jiān)獄里，你就會不斷地被提醒你犯過的罪，并且因為你所做的事情而受到懲罰。
我覺得后者更糟糕。

Peacemaker_58
I'd be for it because that's been my argument for several years. Don't waste time and money with people who are guilty with 100% proof of things like serial rape or multiple murders.

我會贊成的，因為我多年來一直持有這樣的觀點。不要吧時間和金錢浪費在那些100%被證明有罪的人身上，比如連環(huán)強奸連環(huán)謀殺。

HiNoKitsune
Isn't it a Bit disgusting to end a human Life because it would Cost less? People like that are hardly morally superior to the murderers they want to execute.

因為這樣做的代價更低而結(jié)束人類的生命難道不是有點惡心嗎？像這樣的人在道德上不比那些他們想處決的殺人犯更優(yōu)越。

Peacemaker_58
No. Sometimes the needs of the many hardworking people contributing to society outweigh the needs of the few who have decided murders and rape is ok.

不。有的時候許多勤勞的對社會有貢獻的人的需要大于少數(shù)被證明是謀殺和強奸的人的需要是可以接受的。

AbsentiaMentis
If an entire town needs to live in fear of rape & murder because of 1 guy with a history of recidivism, it is completely justified imo.

如果整個小鎮(zhèn)因為一個有犯罪歷史的人而需要生活在對強奸和謀殺的恐懼中，這么做完全是有道理的。

spideyismywingman
I strongly don't believe that financial considerations can come into this conversation. This is a moral question and can only be answered as such. It's also cheaper to kill unrepentent thieves, but we wouldn't do that because it's immoral.
That isn't to defend life sentences over the death penalty, I just don't think you can talk finances here.

我強烈反對把這個話題引入到經(jīng)濟因素中。這是一個道德問題，只能以道德來談?wù)?。殺死不悔改的小偷也更省錢，但我們不會這么做，因為這是不道德的。
這不是為死刑辯護，我只是不認(rèn)為你應(yīng)該在這里談?wù)撠攧?wù)問題。

Peacemaker_58
Sure you can. We have an overcrowding problem and a budget problem. Both of those would be helped here. You don't need to worry about killing thieves because the punishment doesn't fit the crime there.

當(dāng)然能談經(jīng)濟因素。我們有監(jiān)獄過度擁擠和預(yù)算問題。死刑對于兩者都會有幫助。你不需要擔(dān)心小偷被殺，因為這不符合那里的法律。

sage1700
I agree with you, but there needs to be like a minimum time spent on rehabilitation before it should be considered. If a guy kills from anger he shouldn't get the death penalty without any attempt of rehabilitation.
Something along the lines of 3 years of trying to turn them around and a definite agreement with a psychologist or something for it to be considered.

我同意你的看法。但在死刑之前，我們應(yīng)該考慮怎么用最低的預(yù)算去讓犯人康復(fù)。如果一個人因憤怒而殺人（激情殺人），那他不應(yīng)該在沒有任何康復(fù)嘗試的情況下被判死刑。
比如用三年來徹底改造他們或者與心理學(xué)家或其他什么人達(dá)成明確的一致的意見等都應(yīng)該被考慮。

HeyZuesHChrist
We can't execute people for serial rape, man. That's opening a whole other box of problems.

我們不能因為連環(huán)強奸而判處死刑。這是另一個問題。

Peacemaker_58
No it isn't. They are a burden to society, taking away the rights of many and in some cases, the lives of them too. So they should lose theirs.

不，這不是另一個問題。他們是社會的負(fù)擔(dān)，剝奪了許多人的權(quán)利，在某些情況下也剝奪了被害者的生命。所以他們（犯人）應(yīng)該失去他們的生命。

HeyZuesHChrist
You're ignoring the consequences of doing this. Your response is totally emotional. You have to look at the repercussions. As cliche as it sounds the punishment needs to fit the crime. A lot of people think we should just execute rapists. A big component of punishing people for their crimes is that it is a deterrent to committing that crime. Some people don't murder people because they morally cannot justify it. Others don't because they fear the consequences. If the consequences for rape and murder are the same then there is no deterrent for rapists to leave their victims alive.
If the punishment for rape was death what you would find is that more rapists would kill their victims, because it won't get them a more severe punishment. It's all the same at that point. If they leave their victim alive there is a far greater chance they will be caught and if they are caught the punishment is death. While rape is terrible, murder is final. There would actually be an incentive for rapists to kill their victims. No eye witness. Nobody to identify them. Nobody to report it to the police. You can get rid of all the evidence. Executing rapists would be extremely dangerous. Once you have already crossed the line into death penalty anything goes.
That's why you see different levels of punishment for crimes.

你忽視了這樣做的后果。你的回復(fù)完全是情緒化的。你得看看后果。聽起來很陳詞濫調(diào)，但懲罰需要與犯罪程度相適應(yīng)。很多人認(rèn)為我們應(yīng)該處決強奸犯死刑。懲罰犯罪人的一個重要原因是，這是對犯罪的威懾。一些人不殺人是因為這不符合道德規(guī)范，一些人不殺人是因為害怕后果。如果強奸和謀殺的后果是相同的，那么強奸犯就不會讓受害者活著。

如果對強奸的處罰是死刑，你會發(fā)現(xiàn)更多的強奸犯會殺害他們的受害者，因為已經(jīng)沒有辦法再給他們更嚴(yán)厲的懲罰了。這一點是相通的。如果他們讓受害者活著，他們被抓的可能性要大得多，如果他們被抓住，懲罰就是死亡。強奸很糟糕，謀殺更可怕。這么做實際上就是給了強奸犯殺死受害者動機。沒有目擊證人。沒人能認(rèn)出他們。沒人報警。你就可以處理掉所有的證據(jù)。所以處決強奸犯是非常危險的。一旦你越界進入死刑，上述一切都可能會發(fā)生。
這就是為什么你會看到對犯罪的不同程度進行不同的懲罰。

hippie_ki_yay
Exactly, but I never understand how people get the death penalty in some states for single murders that may have happened in a fit of rage. I think the serial killers and rapists should get the death penalty, the ones where, if let out, there is 100% a change they will be a danger to society and there is nothing they can do in prison to positively impact a life.

沒錯，但我從來不明白在一些州，人們是如何因可能是在憤怒中發(fā)生的單起謀殺案而被判死刑的。我認(rèn)為連環(huán)殺手和強奸犯應(yīng)該得到死刑，如果讓他們出去，他們百分之百會對社會造成危害，而讓他們呆在監(jiān)獄里也不會對他們的人生再造成什么積極的影響。

Maigal
My issue with this i that the person who killed someone else has the chance to live, the other person doesn't. Why should a person that takes away someone's right to live have that right himself?

我對此的意見是，殺害他人的人有機會活下去，而被他殺害的人卻沒有了。為什么剝奪一個人的生存權(quán)的人自己擁有這個權(quán)利？

longtimelurker8246
My issue with your argument is how few factors are considered in it. Does that apply to soldiers? They kill many people, often civilians. Should they receive the death penalty upon returning to the US? What about in cases of manslaughter? What if the person they killed was also a murderer, or a rapist, or a pedophile? Etc, etc, etc.

我對你的論點的看法是，它考慮的因有多少。這適用于士兵嗎？他們殺害了許多人，往往是平民。返回美國時，他們是否應(yīng)該接受死刑？那么在殺人案件中呢？如果他們殺的人也是殺人犯，強奸犯，戀童癖怎么辦？等等

Maigal
I understand your point, and honestly that's one of the biggest issues. I can see the flaws in my own reasoning, but I've thought about this topic a lot and basically kill anybody who kills an Innocent seems like the most logical approach.
And yes, I understand that it's hard to define who is innocent and whatnot (plus a lot of other factors), that's why its not a realistic thing that Will happen anytime.

我明白你的觀點，說實話，這是最大的問題之一。我能看到我自己推理中的缺陷，但是我已經(jīng)對這個話題思考了很多，基本上對任何濫殺無辜的人判處死刑似乎是最合乎邏輯的方法。
是的，我知道很難定義誰是無辜的什么的(加上許多其他因素)，這就是為什么不現(xiàn)實的事情會隨時發(fā)生。

pcopley
“basically kill anybody who kills an Innocent seems like the most logical approach”
How about "Arrest people who commit crimes. The State should not make a habit of killing its own citizens." That seems much more logical and less based around emotion.

“對任何濫殺無辜的人判處死刑?！?br/>“逮捕犯罪的人。國家不應(yīng)養(yǎng)成殺害本國公民的習(xí)慣”。這個邏輯怎么樣。它似乎更符合邏輯，而不是基于情感。

4th_Chamber
An eye for an eye just makes sense. That's the saying, right?

以眼還眼是對的，這是一句俗語，對嗎？

trojanguy
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

以眼還眼使整個世界失明。

idkwhatimdoing25
No matter what happens to the murderer, the victim won't get their life back. I'm not 100% opposed to death penalty but this argument doesn't work. By your argument, if we sentence someone to death we are taking that person's right to live just like the murderer took the victims right to live. Death penalty shouldn't be for revenge.

不管對兇手做什么，都已經(jīng)無法挽回被害者的生命了。我不是百分之百反對死刑，但你提這個論點行不通。根據(jù)你的論點，如果我們判處某人死刑，我們就是剝奪了那個人的生存權(quán)，就像兇手剝奪了受害者的生存權(quán)一樣。死刑不應(yīng)該是為了報復(fù)。

Maigal
I don't know about you, but for me an innocent life isnt exactly the same as a murderer's life. It's very subjective,, and it isn't even revenge, it's basically eliminating absolute garbage human beings out of society

我不知道你的情況，但對我來說，無辜的受害者的生和殺人犯的生命是不能劃等號的。這是非常主觀的，甚至不是報復(fù)，它基本上只是把垃圾人從社會中清除出去。

idkwhatimdoing25
A life is a life to me. What makes me better than a murderer is that I won't resort to ending someone's life. What if the murderer's victim was also garbage human being? Does that make the crime okay?

對我來說，生命就是生命沒什么不同。我比殺人犯更好的原因是我不會選擇終結(jié)別人的生命。但如果兇手的受害者也是垃圾人呢？這能讓犯罪變得合理嗎？

nebuka
Justice is not about fucking retribution. Not in any civilized society. So if a thief steals something should all his stuff get taken by the government because he lost the right to have stuff?
Not to mention you're being so infuriatingly black and white.

正義不是他媽的復(fù)仇。在任何文明社會里都不是。如果一個小偷偷了東西，那他所有的東西就都得被政府拿走，因為他失去了擁有東西的權(quán)利？
更別提你太非黑即白了。

abcPIPPO
Laws don't work that way. Human rights aren't supposed to be a "Do as I say or I'll punish you" mindset, it's a "Since you are a human being, that's enough for you to have rights that you can't lose in any way". The only single case in which a human right should be denied is if that puts in danger the same right of other people.

法律不是這樣運作的。人權(quán)不應(yīng)該是一種“照我說的做，否則我就懲罰你”的心態(tài)，而是一種“既然你是人，就應(yīng)該讓你擁有任何方式都不能失去的權(quán)利”。一個人人權(quán)被剝奪的唯一情況是，如果這樣做會危及其他人的同樣的權(quán)利。

DagarMan0
Because, if we were to argue like you are, then we'd be no different from them. Why do you get to decide who lives, based on their crimes? Their blood is on your hands from then on. Taking the high ground sucks sometimes, but by not doing so you are literally just excusing murder. You are doing what you are condemning.

因為，如果我們像你說的一樣去做，那我們就跟他們（罪犯）沒什么兩樣了。你為什么要根據(jù)他們的罪行來決定誰應(yīng)該活著？從那時起你的手上就沾滿了他們的鮮血了。占據(jù)道德高地有時候讓人感覺很爛，但如果你不這么做，你就是在為謀殺開脫。你在做著你正在譴責(zé)的事。

TheShadowbyte
Because, ideally, the actions of a just and moral society, should be more admirable than the actions of a ruthless criminal. That being said, I don't want to lean on either side of the debate at this time because I'm not certain of what standing is the more "moral" one, though perhaps things like undiscovered mental illness (not just undiagnosed, but literally yet undefined by our our scientists/psychologists) may be an important factor to consider.

因為，在理想情況下，公正和道德的社會的行為應(yīng)該比無情的罪犯的行為更令人欽佩。話雖如此，但我不想在這段時間站在辯論的任何一方，因為我不確定什么是更“道德”的立場，不過，也許像是未被發(fā)現(xiàn)的精神疾?。ú粌H僅是未經(jīng)診斷，也可以是我們的科學(xué)家/心理學(xué)家還沒有進行定義）可能也是一個重要的考慮因素。

Maigal
I understand what you mean, bug i don't necessarily think that killing a murderer and an innocent is the same morally tho, even though the action itself is the same.

我明白你的意思，但是，我不認(rèn)為殺死一個殺人犯和殺死一個無辜的人在道德上是相同的，即使行動本身是一樣的。

IsabellaGalavant
Exactly how I feel. Why should a murderer, who denied someone else their chance at life, be allowed to live and redeem themselves? I don't think they should.

這正是我的感受。為什么不給別人生命的機會的殺人犯要被允許活著和贖罪呢？我覺得他們不應(yīng)該。
 

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