關(guān)于歌曲翻譯

最近在一個寒鴉反應(yīng)視頻下看到了一些人在評論下面討論關(guān)于什么樣才算是華晨宇歌曲 “好” 翻譯的激烈爭論。作為翻譯組，海翻對這個話題有很多話要說。然而，我們不想在視頻下面用這樣的辯論來分散反應(yīng)觀眾的注意力，所以我們想在這里分享我們的想法。

首先，我們很高興歌迷們對翻譯質(zhì)量如此熱情。我們很早就想解釋海翻翻譯華晨宇歌曲的理念，但又擔(dān)心這會讓歌迷覺得 “無聊”。

由于題目比較大，我覺得寫成問答的形式比較清楚。請注意，我們這場辯論的目的從來不是關(guān)于誰的翻譯好或壞，而是如何最好地分享花花的音樂。

Debate About Song Translations

We saw some heated debate about what counts as a “good” translation of Hua Hua’s songs under a reaction video recently. As a translator group, we have a lot to say on this topic. However, we don’t want to distract reaction viewers with such debates, so we want to share our thoughts here instead.

First of all, we are happy that fans are so passionate about the quality of the translation. We’ve wanted to explain our philosophy in translating Hua’s songs for a long time but have been worried that it would be “boring” to fans.

Since the topic is quite large, ?I think writing it in the Q&A format is clearer. Note that our intention in this debate is never about whose translation is good or bad, but how to best share Hua Hua’s music.

Q1：“翻譯”有標(biāo)準(zhǔn)嗎？

是的，從三個方面衡量翻譯質(zhì)量一直有一個標(biāo)準(zhǔn) 信 達 雅：
1. 忠實度 2. 可理解性和 3. 優(yōu)雅/自然流暢。

忠實是最重要的方面，因為如果信息是錯誤的，那么無論翻譯多么好理解或翻譯多么漂亮，你都偏離了信息，因此它不能算作一個好的翻譯。

Q1: Is there a standard in “translations”?

Yes, there has been a long-held standard in gauging the quality of translation in three aspects: 1. Faithfulness 2. Understandability and 3. Gracefulness/natural flow.

Faithfulness is the most important aspect because if the message is wrong, then no matter how understandable or how beautiful the translation is, you go off the message, therefore it cannot be counted as a good translation.

Q2：忠實翻譯是指逐字機器翻譯嗎？

答：不是的。客觀上可以從幾個方面來評判忠信。我們在翻譯的時候會注意以下幾個方面：

1. 是否準(zhǔn)確翻譯了歌詞的整體基調(diào)？這首歌是情緒化的、憤世嫉俗的、沉思的、好玩的還是幽默的？這些方面決定了單詞的選擇。

2. 翻譯是否傳達了原曲的意象？翻譯中是否遺漏了任何隱喻？

3. 譯文是否翻譯了歌詞的內(nèi)在邏輯，使其連貫？

4. 翻譯是否反映了歌詞中使用的文化和歷史參考？

? ?類似機器的逐字翻譯幾乎從不反映這些方面。

Q2: Does faithful translation means word-for-word machine-like translation?

Answer: No. Faithfulness can be judged in several aspects objectively. When we translate, we would pay attention to the following aspects:

1. Does it translate the overall tone of the lyrics accurately? Is the song emotional, cynical, pensive, playful, or humorous? These aspects determine word choices.

2. Does the translation convey the imagery of the original song? Does any metaphor got lost in the translation?

3. Does the translation translate the inherent logic of the lyrics so that it’s coherent?

4. Does the translation reflect the cultural and historical references used in the lyrics?

Machine-like word-for-word translations almost never reflect these aspects.

Q3.為什么海翻的一些翻譯有時會令人困惑和晦澀？

A：如果你比較一下我們翻譯的第四張專輯和第五張專輯（12月發(fā)行，2021年演唱會期間部分公開），你可能會發(fā)現(xiàn)我們對第四張專輯歌曲的翻譯比第五張專輯歌曲更難理解。原因是由于原始歌詞中的文化參考。對于這一點，我必須更廣泛地解釋一下，因為它對外國粉絲來說可能非常“陌生”。

我們發(fā)現(xiàn)華華對道教和佛教作為哲學(xué)和精神原則（而不是宗教）有著濃厚的興趣。道教和佛教的特點都是大量使用謎題般的“隱喻”語言，旨在挑戰(zhàn)人們在日常語言中普遍持有的信仰。

比如在《寒鴉少年》里，我們內(nèi)部議論紛紛的一句歌詞是“月光正坐下 在禱告
烏鴉張開嘴巴”。這句歌詞最初被翻譯為“當(dāng)月光撒下時，我坐著祈禱”。這樣的翻譯從表面上看會自然和易懂得多。但如果我們采用這種翻譯，原來的比喻就會丟失。

在道教（以及許多其他傳統(tǒng)）中，從天而降的光是啟蒙的隱喻，而烏鴉說的是不受歡迎的真理。這兩句背后的邏輯是，月光從天而降，在祈禱中對我“說話”后，我現(xiàn)在明白了烏鴉所說的丑陋真相。如果我們回憶起開頭的臺詞，“像一出默劇 視線有霧氣?” 那么邏輯就很完美了——歌曲首先描繪了一個非常神秘和令人費解的環(huán)境，然后主角通過一個啟蒙時刻的信息意識到了這個陰謀。這只是許多文化參考中的一個小例子，這些文化參考無法在直接翻譯的歌詞中體現(xiàn)出來。

Q3. Why some of your translations are confusing and obscure?

A: If you compare our translation of Album 4 and Album 5 (To be released in Dec and partially revealed during the 2021 concert), you may find our translation of Album 4 songs a lot less understandable than Album 5 songs. The reason is due to the cultural references in the original lyrics. For this point, I have to explain a bit more extensively as it’s perhaps very “foreign” to foreign fans.

We found that Hua Hua has had a deep interest in Taoism and Buddhism as philosophical and spiritual principles (not as religions). Taoism and Buddhism are both characterized by the extensive use of puzzle-like “metaphorical” language that is meant to challenge people’s commonly held beliefs in everyday language.

For example, in “Jackdaw Boy”, one line of lyrics that got a lot of our internal discussions was “The moonlight is settling down and praying, the crows open their mouth, mouth”. ?This line of lyric was first translated to” When the moonlight was shining, I was sitting and praying.” ?This translation would sound a lot more natural and understandable on the surface. But if we adopted this translation, the original metaphor would be lost. In Taoism (and many other traditions), light shining down from above is a metaphor for enlightenment, and crows speak the unwelcoming truth. ?The logic behind these two lines is that after moonlight shone down from above and “talked” to me in the prays, I now understand the ugly truth spoken by the crows. If we recall the opening lines, ?“It’s like in a mime, there is haze in the eyesight. “ then the logic flows perfectly—The song first depicts an environment that’s very mysterious and puzzling, then the main character realized the conspiracy through a message from a moment of enlightenment. This is just one tiny example of the many cultural references that can’t be made apparent in our translations of the lyrics directly.

Q4：如果原字不動的翻譯會讓人看不懂，翻譯成看得懂的不是更好嗎？

A：我們覺得要尊重藝術(shù)家的初衷。如果他的意思是令人費解和有趣，那就這樣吧。如果把我們對譯文的理解也加入進來，那就太自私了。如果人們發(fā)現(xiàn)它令人費解并且被失去興趣而不是被這些歌曲所吸引，那么就是這樣了?；ɑ◤牟挥懞糜^眾，而是“雙向選擇”。我們選擇花花是因為他的音樂創(chuàng)作，花花也選擇了尊重和重視他的創(chuàng)作的粉絲。我們憑什么歪曲他的初衷？

Q4: If the faithful translation is not understandable, wouldn’t it be better to translate it into something understandable?

A: ?We feel that we have to respect the artist’s original intention. If he meant it to be puzzling and intriguing, then so be it. It would be too egoistic if we throw in our interpretation of the translation. If people find it puzzling and got turned off rather than being intrigued by these songs then it’s meant to be that way. Hua Hua never appeases the audience and it’s rather a “two-way selection”. We chose Hua Hua for his music creations and Hua Hua also chose fans who respect and value his creations. Who are we to distort his original intention?

Q5: 能說一口流利中文的人就可以判斷翻譯的質(zhì)量嗎？

A：我們必須指出的是，4專中的歌詞不僅對外國歌迷來說晦澀難懂，對以中文為母語人士來說也是如此，大多數(shù)人以宗教迷信實踐的形式而不是哲學(xué)形式來理解這些哲學(xué)。因此，如果您抓住一個普通的說中文的人，他們很可能會說這樣的歌詞“不可理解”。

然而，我們發(fā)現(xiàn)，許多幫花作詞的詞人與其他歌手的合作，實際上常常沒有用這些文化參照物來寫作。唯一的可能，就是花花給了作詞人這樣的想法。火星人現(xiàn)在有一個共識，花花在塑造他所有的歌詞中起著至關(guān)重要的作用。

因此，找一個普通的說中文的人來判斷翻譯的好壞，在專輯4的歌曲中是完全沒有意義的。至少她/他應(yīng)該廣泛閱讀道教佛教文本并且對歌詞有很好的理解。如果他/她一開始就覺得這些歌詞令人費解，那么他/她當(dāng)然會忽略歌詞背后的隱喻和內(nèi)在邏輯。

2019年后花花的興趣發(fā)生了一些變化，用他自己的話說，他在專輯5中寫了更多關(guān)于日常生活的東西。所以我們和觀眾欣賞翻譯的工作就容易多了。我們不必處理這些隱藏的隱喻。但這種風(fēng)格轉(zhuǎn)變可能不是永久性的。他將來可能又會回到這種寫作風(fēng)格。

Q5: Can any fluent Chinese speaker be a judge of the quality of translations?

A: I have to point out that lyrics in Album4 are not just obscure and confusing to foreign fans, but also to native Chinese speakers as Taoism and Buddhism are foreign to most Chinese contemporary audiences. Most people understand these philosophies in the form of superstitious religious practices rather than as forms of philosophy. So if you grab a common Chinese speaker, most likely, they would say that such lyrics are not “understandable”.?

However, We found that most lyricsts?who worked with other artists, ?they?actually don’t write with these cultural references at all. The only possibility is that Hua Hua was the one who gave her such ideas. Martians have a consensus now that Hua Hua plays a vital role in shaping all his lyrics.

So grabbing an average Chinese speaker to judge what’s good and bad translation will be totally off on Album 4 songs. At least she/he should have read Taoism Buddhism text extensively and have a good understanding of the lyrics. If he/she finds these lyrics puzzling, to begin with, then of course, he/she will ignore the metaphors and the inherent logic behind the lyrics.

Hua Hua’s interest shifted somewhat after 2019. In his own words, he wrote more about everyday life in his Album 5. So it was a much easier job for us and the audiences in appreciating the translations. We didn’t have to deal with such hidden metaphors. But this style shift may not be permanent. He might go back to this style of writing in the future.

Q6：翻譯的正確與否沒有客觀的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，所以只有更容易理解和自然流暢的翻譯才是好的翻譯。

答：我們同意沒有“正確”的解釋，所以我們盡可能忠實于原作者，將“解釋”的選擇權(quán)留給外國粉絲。正如我們回答的第一題中所概述的那樣，“忠實”是相對客觀的。如果我們插入很多我們的解釋，那么外國粉絲能 “闡釋” 的機會就少了。

Q6: There is no objective standard in what’s correct in interpretations so only translations that are more understandable and flow naturally count as good translations.

Answer: We agree that there are no “correct” interpretations and that’s why we’ve tried our best to be faithful to the original lyricist as much as possible and leave the option of “interpretation” to foreign fans. Being “faithful” is relatively objective as we have outlined in Q1. If we interject in a lot of our interpretations, then it leaves less option for foreign fans to be “interpretive.”

Q7：海翻是如何嘗試提高可理解性的？

A：多年來，海翻與許多以英語為母語的人合作過。我可以分享一個我們討論歌詞表的鏈接，以顯示每首歌曲都進行了多少編輯和修正。我們理解可理解性和流暢性的重要性，盡管我們將忠誠度看得高于這兩個目標(biāo)?？傆懈倪M的余地，我們歡迎任何關(guān)于好的翻譯的建議。我們還不斷招募新的編輯與海翻合作。

Q7: How did you try to improve the understandability?

A: Over the years, we have worked with many native English speakers. I can share a link to our discussion sheet to show how much editing and correction went into every single song. We understand the importance of understandability and flow although we value faithfulness above these two objectives. There is always room for improvement and we would welcome any suggestions for good translations. We also constantly recruit new editors to work with us.

Q8：翻譯上的小差異無關(guān)緊要，你為什么要為這些爭論煩惱？

如果純粹是解釋風(fēng)格、用詞等問題，我們一般不會費心去提出不同意見。翻譯有很大的靈活性，人們有偏好。我們明白這一點。

我們認(rèn)為當(dāng)翻譯如果與忠實離得太遠，那就很重要了。例如 官方的四專七重人格被翻譯成 "Split" (人格分裂)。還有在《七重人格》剛發(fā)布的時候，湖南衛(wèi)視的一位消息人士發(fā)表了一篇解讀，說花花在《七重人格》中表達了“殘忍和控制狂”。這種解釋很普遍?；ɑㄆ綍r對自己的歌曲的詮釋通常非常靈活。但對于《七重人格》，他在去年的采訪中不得不發(fā)聲，說出“最流行的七重人格”的解讀都不是他的本意，“七重人格”并不是七種不同的分裂狀態(tài)，它們是連續(xù)的”。所以很明顯，花花在一定程度上至少在大方向上，是在意詮釋的。

Q8: Little differences in translation don’t matter and why do you bother with these arguments?

We generally won’t bother to raise a difference in opinion if it’s purely a matter of interpretative style, choice of words, etc. There is a lot of flexibility in translation and people have preferences. We understand that.

We think if faithfulness is too far off, it matters. ?For example, on EEMedia’s Album 4 CDs, Seven Personalities was translated as Split. Also, when Seven Personalities was first released, a source from the Hunan TV group published an interpretation talking about Hua Hua expressing “cruelty and control freak” in Seven Personalities. The interpretation was widespread. ?Hua Hua is usually very flexible about interpretations of his songs. Yet on Seven Personalities, he had to raise his voice in the Yuli interview last year that “The most popular interpretation of Seven Personalities” was not his original intention, and that Seven Personality “is not about being seven different split states, they are continuous”. So obviously, Hua Hua cares about interpretations to a certain degree. At least in the general direction.

問：你有沒有試圖排擠其他翻譯小組？

我們從未不公平地排擠任何其他翻譯小組。事實上，從一開始，我們就被長期攻擊我們的人從多方面不公平地排擠，包括通過非常低級和卑鄙的手段，例如最近對我們頻道的造假惡意版權(quán)攻擊和多年來對海翻的各種誹謗。我們一直相信公開對話，我們歡迎對我們的翻譯提出批評。我們也理解您是否喜歡其他風(fēng)格的翻譯。

由于缺乏對現(xiàn)有翻譯的忠實方面的關(guān)注，海翻于 2017 年首次成立華晨宇的翻譯小組。在此之前我們確實嘗試對其他的翻譯指出一些問題，但發(fā)現(xiàn)ˋ這些建議無濟于事，于是我們決定自己成立翻譯小組。一開始我們對這些問題非常直言不諱。然而，這樣的討論往往被曲解為我們“攻擊”其他譯者。

我們不得不說，我們從來沒有打算“攻擊”其他譯者。我們一直是希望更好地展示花花的作品。當(dāng)我們發(fā)現(xiàn)這樣的建議經(jīng)常被誤解為“攻擊”時，我們明白他們重點都不是真正放在花花想要表達的東西上。否則，這種“攻擊”的指控不應(yīng)該被提出，因為我們相信作為歌迷的公開對話。

此外，多年來我們一直在接受各種關(guān)于我們翻譯的建議。我們從來沒有把批評我們的翻譯 “晦澀難懂” 視為惡意攻擊，而是當(dāng)做是歌迷的真誠建議。事后卻被猜測海翻的意圖是試圖吸引注意力或排擠其他翻譯小組，這對我們非常非常有害。

海翻希望下次，如果你聽到類似的話，請在得出任何結(jié)論之前至少聽聽我們這邊的故事。

我們的最后一句話：我們并不是想說我們有最好的翻譯。我們只是在翻譯中闡述我們的理念。您是否同意我們?nèi)Q于您。我們希望我們可以不同意彼此的尊重。至少不要將我們在這些對話中的意圖猜測為“攻擊”。

Q: Have you been trying to push out other translation groups?

We have never unfairly pushed out any other translator groups. In fact, from the very beginning, we have been unfairly pushed out by our long-time attackers from multiple fronts, including through very low and abject means such as the recent fake copyright attack on our channel and various slanders throughout the years. We have always believed in open dialogues and we welcome criticism of our translations. ?We also understand if you prefer other styles of translation.

We first started our translation group in 2017 because of a lack of attention to the faithful aspects of the existing translations. We did try to point out the problems initially but these suggestions went nowhere, and we started our own translation group instead. ?We were quite outspoken about these issues at the beginning. However, such discussions were often distorted as us “attacking” other translators. We have to say that it’s never our intention to “attack” other translators. It has always been about a better presentation of Hua Hua’s work. When we found out that such suggestions were often misinterpreted as “attacks”, we understood that the focus was not really on what Hua Hua wanted to express. ?Otherwise, this charge of “attacking” should have never been raised as we believe in open dialogues as fans. Also, we’ve been accepting all kinds of suggestions for our translations over the years. We’ve never taken criticism of our translation as “being obscure” as hostile attacks but as concerned fans’ sincere suggestions. Second-guessing our intention as trying to grab attention or to push out other translator groups has been very very hurtful to us. I wish that next time, if you hear something like that, please at least listen to our side of the story before you reach any conclusion.

Our final words: We are not trying to say that we have the best translations. We simply lay out our philosophy in translation. Whether you agree with us is up to you. We wish that we can disagree with respect to each other. At least don’t second guess our intention in these dialogues as “attacks”.