TED演講者：Margaret Hall / 瑪格麗特·霍爾

演講標題：How modern audiences can talk about aging art / 現(xiàn)代觀眾如何談論老化的藝術作品

內容概要：Some works of art stand the test of time; others don't age as well. Using American musical theater as her case study, theater historian Margaret Hall shares a framework of five categories to talk about how art does (and doesn't) remain useful across generations -- encouraging us to address the "growing pains" that all art faces as time and culture moves on.

某些藝術作品經(jīng)得起時間的考驗，而有些則無法經(jīng)久不衰。以美國音樂劇為案例研究，戲劇史學家瑪格麗特·霍爾（Margaret Hall）分享了一個由五個類別組成的框架，來談論藝術如何在幾代人之間保持有用性——鼓勵我們解決所有隨著時間和文化的發(fā)展而面臨的藝術的 "成長的痛苦"。

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【1】Hello, everyone.

大家好,

【2】As he said, my name is Margaret Hall.

正如大家看到的, 我叫瑪格麗特·霍爾（Margaret Hall）

【3】I'm a musical theater historian, writer and teacher, and I'm here to talk to you about how we talk about art.

我是一名音樂劇歷史學家、 作家以及老師。 今天我來跟大家談談如何談論藝術。

【4】Theater is, at its core, a collaborative art form.

戲劇的核心是一種合作的藝術形式,

【5】It's a way for human beings to communicate with one another.

這是人類彼此溝通的一種方式。

【6】Why then do we struggle to communicate about the art form itself?

那為什么我們難以討論藝術形式本身呢？

【7】There is one massive foundation-shifting question that many people working in the American theater avoid, and that question is: How do we approach aging art?

在美國戲劇領域, 有一個極其重要的問題被許多人回避。 那就是:我們該如何 看待老化的藝術形式？

【8】The American musical is a relatively young art form.

美國音樂劇是一個相對年輕的藝術形式,

【9】If we use 1866's "The Black Crook"

如果我們以 1866 年的 《黑鴉》為起點,

【10】as our marker, then the art form is only 156 years old.

那么這種藝術形式僅有 156 年的歷史。

【11】Now that feels like a very old age to us because no human being is going to reach that age naturally.

這對我們來說感覺已經(jīng)很久了, 因為沒有人類能夠自然地活到這個年齡。

【12】But if you compare the American musical to the forms of theater that reached precedence before it, it is a baby.

但是,如果你將美國音樂劇 與之前的戲劇形式進行比較, 它就是一個嬰兒。

【13】To us, it feels like the American musical has always been, since no one in this room and none of our parents and most likely any of our grandparents were alive in 1866 to see it begin.

對我們來說,美國音樂劇似乎一直存在, 因為在場的各位,包括我們的父母,甚至我們的祖父母, 沒有人能夠在 1866 年看到它的開始。

【14】Five generations is approximately the length of time it takes for a tradition to feel ancient to a child.

對于一個孩子來說, 經(jīng)過五代人的傳承 才會形成一個古老的傳統(tǒng)。

【15】Think about that cure someone in your circle has for the common cold or that recipe your grandmother guards like a precious jewel.

想想你所認識的人中 有沒有人有治療感冒的秘方？ 或者你祖母如同珍寶一樣的食譜。

【16】Now chances are that cure is more placebo than it is effect, and your grandmother's secret recipe may have come from a cookbook her grandmother owned way back in the day.

很有可能那個秘方更多的是心理暗示 而不是真正有效, 而你祖母的秘密食譜可能來自于 她的祖母在很久以前就擁有的食譜。

【17】But by the time it reaches us, it's taken on a different, constant feeling.

但是當它傳承到我們這一代時, 它變成了一種不同的、持續(xù)的感覺。

【18】You're never going to meet the person who originated the tradition, and so it becomes a part of the fabric of your reality, something that you base your knowledge of who you and the people around you are.

我們永遠不會見到創(chuàng)造這個傳統(tǒng)的人, 所以它成為了你現(xiàn)實的一部分, 是你對自己和周圍的人的認知的基礎。

【19】And in the case of the American theater, you will never meet the artist.

同樣的,在美國戲劇行業(yè), 你永遠不會遇到這個藝術家。

【20】Generations apply to art, just as they do artists.

就像藝術家一樣, 藝術也具有代際性。

【21】25 years is the average dividing line between the eras as tastes change and we use art to ask different questions.

隨著時代的變遷 和我們用藝術提出不同的問題, 平均每 25 年 就會形成一個新的藝術時代。

【22】The American musical is currently in its sixth artistic generation, which means we just passed the ancient marker.

現(xiàn)在,美國音樂劇已經(jīng)進入 第六個藝術時代, 這意味著我們剛剛經(jīng)過了 “古老”的標志。

【23】That is a milestone in and of itself.

這本身就是一個里程碑。

【24】Think of it like we've gone from being a teenage art form to a young adult.

想象一下,我們已經(jīng)從一種少年藝術形式 過渡到了一種成年藝術形式。

【25】Now, that transition may seem small on paper, but as anyone who has ever gone back to their high school after their first semester of college can tell you, that gulf is wider than you think.

這個轉變在紙面上現(xiàn)在可能看起來很小, 但是任何曾經(jīng)在大學第一學期后 回到高中的人, 都可以告訴你, 這個鴻溝比你想象的要大。

【26】(Laughter) We've grown. We're different. We've learned.

（笑聲） 我們成長了,變得不同了, 我們學到了很多東西。

【27】We're still the same person, of course, but our hearts and minds are open to things we didn't even know existed.

當然,我們還是同一個人, 但我們的心靈和頭腦 對以前不曾了解的事物敞開了心扉。

【28】The American musical is growing up, and it is time for us to address the growing pains.

美國音樂劇在成長, 現(xiàn)在是我們要應對 成長中的疼痛的時候了。

【29】For many of us, our instinct is to bury the phases of life that we cringe to look back on.

對于我們很多人來說, 本能反應讓我們不愿回憶 那些想掩蓋的生活階段。

【30】And just like a Hot Topic T-shirt stashed in the back of a closet, we like to pretend it never existed.

就像是一件被藏在衣櫥角落里的 過氣的土味潮牌, 我們愿意假裝它從未存在過。

【31】(Laughter) I'm here to tell you that as satisfying as that may feel in the moment, ignoring it is not the answer.

（笑聲） 我來告訴你們, 雖然忽視問題在當下會讓我們感到滿足, 但逃避并不是解決之道。

【32】You can donate the shirt. You can repurpose it into a cleaning rag.

你可以捐贈那件衣服, 也可以把它改成清潔抹布,

【33】You can even light it on fire and dance around the embers if you so choose.

甚至可以燒了它, 圍著火堆跳舞。

【34】But you cannot make the shirt never have existed.

但你無法讓那件衣服從未存在過。

【35】The fact is, many older shows are difficult for us as modern audience members today.

事實上,許多舊的藝術作品 對于我們現(xiàn)代觀眾來說很難欣賞。

【36】And honestly, that is one of my greatest joys because it is a direct sign of progress.

實話實說,這是我最開心的事情之一, 因為這是進步的直接標志。

【37】Frankly, I would be a little bit worried if sensibilities had not changed in 156 years.

如果 156 年來 我們的審美觀都沒有改變, 我真的會有點擔心。

【38】Remember that foundation-shifting question?

還記得那個我們最開始的問題嗎？

【39】How do we approach aging art?

我們該如何看待老舊藝術？

【40】Well, we haven't been approaching it.

嗯,我們一直沒有正面回答它。

【41】The industry at large has been avoiding this question since the nostalgia craze of the 1970s.

自從 1970 年代的懷舊熱潮以來, 整個行業(yè)都在回避這個問題。

【42】So great is the avoidance that we don't even really have the language that we need to have these conversations.

這種逃避如此強烈, 以至于我們根本沒有可用的表達方式 來進行這些對話。

【43】We have to start thinking of theater as something that is alive rather than a static museum piece.

我們必須開始將戲劇視為一種 有生命力的東西, 而不是靜態(tài)的博物館展品。

【44】It contains a piece of the creator's soul which lives on in the work.

它包含著創(chuàng)作者的靈魂, 這個靈魂在作品中得以傳承。

【45】We have to start thinking of theater like a dynamic, aging community member.

我們必須開始將戲劇看作一個 動態(tài)的、老去的社區(qū)成員。

【46】What does this piece of theater trying to communicate?

這部劇作想要傳達什么信息？

【47】Is it still communicating that message effectively long after its initial creation?

即使在它最初被創(chuàng)作之后, 它仍然能夠有效地傳達這個信息嗎？

【48】Or does something else communicate that message better now?

或者現(xiàn)在是否有其他載體 能夠更好地傳達這個信息？

【49】Is it doing more help than harm?

“它對大眾的幫助是否大于危害？”

【50】These are the questions that I ask myself every time I dust off a musical from yesteryear.

每次我在老歌劇中拍拍灰塵時 我都會問自己這個問題。

【51】I'm here to give you my personal framework, which I teach to students across the globe.

這個問題是我個人思考框架的一部分, 我給全球各地的學生 傳授了這個框架。

【52】Now it is not perfect, and I'm going to spend the rest of my life refining it.

這個框架不是完美的, 我會用余生不斷完善它。

【53】But it is a start; it is a start in looking at the American musical as a progression and in finding language to talk about how things do and do not age in the modern zeitgeist.

但這是一個開始,一個從發(fā)展的角度來看待美國音樂劇的開始, 一個尋找如何討論傳統(tǒng)藝術 在現(xiàn)代的時代精神中老化的 表達方式的開始。

【54】The five categories are as follows.

框架中的五個類別是:

【55】Category one: "Active."

第一類為“活躍”,

【56】The piece, while not perfect, communicates its message effectively without any potential problems getting in the way of that communication.

雖然不完美,但作品有效地傳達了信息, 沒有任何潛在問題干擾其傳達;

【57】Category two: "Tricky."

第二類為“棘手”,

【58】The problems within the piece can be mitigated by how the piece is directed or performed.

作品存在問題, 但可通過導演或表演來化解;

【59】Category three: "Troublesome."

第三類為“麻煩”,

【60】The problems are baked into the piece itself, but if they are addressed in a cognizant manner, the show still has something salient to say.

作品本身存在問題, 但如果以一種認真的方式加以處理, 仍然能傳達出有意義的信息;

【61】Category four: "Augmented."

第四類為“加強”,

【62】You need to completely redo an aspect of the piece in order to make it palatable.

你需要徹底重做這個作品的某個方面, 使其更易被接受,

【63】This is where the concept of a revisal comes in.

這時就需要進行修訂;

【64】Category four: "Archived."

第五類為“歸檔”,

【65】The piece has value historically, but it does not need to be publicly performed anymore.

這類作品在歷史上有一定的價值, 但它們不需要再公開演出了。

【66】It has more value as a piece of where we have been than where we are going.

它作為我們曾經(jīng)走過的階段的一部分 會比作為我們未來的方向 更有價值。

【67】Now, the divisions between these five categories are porous.

現(xiàn)在,這五個類別之間的分界是模糊的。

【68】A show may be tricky to one person and troublesome to another.

一個作品可能對一個人來說是棘手的, 但對另一個人來說則是麻煩的。

【69】We all approach art from different vantage points and therefore have different opinions.

我們每個人都從不同的角度接觸到藝術, 因此有不同的觀點。

【70】However, for the sake of giving you an example of the framework, I would like to take the canon of one of the American musical's greatest and most influential ancestors and present it to you within the framework.

為了給你提供一個該框架的例子, 我想將美國音樂劇最偉大 和最有影響力的始祖之一的作品, 放在框架內進行解析。

【71】Oscar Hammerstein II.

奧斯卡·哈默斯坦二世。 （Oscar Hammerstein II）

【72】Now first up is the "Active" category.

現(xiàn)在我們來看看“活躍”這一類別。

【73】Now Oscar died in 1960, which means that two artistic generations have passed since he passed.

奧斯卡·哈默斯坦二世 （Oscar Hammerstein II）逝于 1960 年, 這意味著自他去世以來 已經(jīng)過去了兩代藝術家。

【74】He's essentially the great grandfather to our current artistic generation.

他相當于我們當前藝術家 這一代的曾祖父。

【75】But many of his insights remain as cuttingly clear as they were when he first presented them.

但他的許多見解 仍然像他第一次呈現(xiàn)它們時那樣 清晰而尖銳。

【76】Consider "The Sound of Music."

例如《音樂之聲》。

【77】Its message of heart, hope and humanity resonates with audience members across the world, making it one of the most performed regional, community and educational theater pieces in the entire country.

它傳達的關于心靈、 希望和人性的想法, 在全世界觀眾中引起共鳴, 使其成為全國最受歡迎的 地區(qū)、社區(qū)和教育戲劇作品之一。

【78】It still has a tale to tell, and audiences are still learning its lessons.

它仍然有要講述的故事, 觀眾仍會從中有所收獲。

【79】Next up is the "Tricky" category, which in my opinion is the most flexible part of the framework.

接下來是“棘手”, 我認為這是這個框架中 最靈活的部分。

【80】It's up to us as artists to take these pieces and elevate them in a responsible manner for a modern retelling.

我們作為藝術家, 有責任來處理這些作品, 并以一種負責任的方式提升它們, 以適應現(xiàn)代演出重映的需要。

【81】Take "Oklahoma!" and "South Pacific."

以《俄克拉荷馬！》和 《南太平洋》為例,

【82】Both of these shows had landmark revivals in the last 15 years that upended the way the current generation views them, without changing a single word that Oscar Hammerstein II wrote.

它們在過去 15 年里都有 里程碑式的重演, 顛覆了當代觀眾的看法, 而且沒有修改任何一點 奧斯卡·哈默斯坦二世寫的原作。

【83】This is the material that has the strength for a modern retelling, provided we lift it off the page in a responsible manner.

只要我們以負責任的方式將其提升, 這些劇集就有在現(xiàn)代再演出的實力。

【84】The third category is "Troublesome."

第三個類別是“麻煩”。

【85】Now “Troublesome” are shows that still resonate with modern audiences.

“麻煩”是 這些作品仍然引起現(xiàn)代觀眾的共鳴,

【86】but we may squirm a little bit in our seat if we look too close.

但如果我們仔細研究, 可能會有一些令人不安的因素。

【87】'"The King and I" is a perfect example of a show with many worthwhile messages: the importance of being a lifelong learner, seeing your fellow man as your equal, working together toward a common goal,

《國王與我》就是一個很好的例子, 它傳達了許多有價值的思想, 如終身學習的重要性, 人人平等的價值觀, 為實現(xiàn)同一個目標 而共同努力的愿景,

【88】while also having aspects that would not be well received if it was first presented today.

但同時也有一些方面, 如果它是在當代首演, 可能就不會被友好的接受。

【89】The white saviorism embedded in the initial source text, the treatment of East Asia, the way the Siamese women are underwritten and so on.

如原劇本中的 “白人救世主主義”, 對東亞文化的處理, 緬甸女人的描寫等。

【90】Category four, "Augmented,"

第四類是“加強”,

【91】is when a show's troubles begin to outweigh its triumphs.

指的是一部作品的問題 開始超過它的成就。

【92】Consider "Flower Drum Song."

以《花鼓戲》為例。

【93】'"Flower Drum Song" was written from a place of deep, abiding love and respect for the Asian American community.

《花鼓戲》是出于對美國亞裔群體 深深的、慷慨的愛和尊重的角度 來創(chuàng)作的。

【94】But at the end of the day, Oscar was writing from the perspective of a community that he could never truly be a part of.

但最終, 奧斯卡的寫作, 是從他永遠無法真正融入的 群體的角度來寫的。

【95】In 2002, David Henry Hwang, an Asian American playwright, was brought in to dramatically revise the piece, using songs that have become a part of the American zeitgeist as the soundtrack for far more honest representation.

2002 年,亞裔美國劇作家 黃哲倫（David Henry Hwang） 受邀大幅修改這部作品, 使用已經(jīng)成為美國文化的代表性歌曲 作為配樂 以實現(xiàn)更加真實的呈現(xiàn)。

【96】The final category, "Archived," is perhaps the most controversial.

最后一個類別是“歸檔”, 可能是最有爭議的。

【97】Some people confuse this category with bad and they are not at all synonymous.

有些人會把這個類別和糟糕的作品混淆, 但它們并不完全相同。

【98】Just because a show is archived does not mean it was never useful.

一個作品被存檔, 并不意味著它一無是處。

【99】In fact, typically they were extremely useful in their day.

事實上,它們通常在它們的時代 非常有用。

【100】Consider 1927's "Show Boat."

以 1927 年的《演出船》為例。

【101】'"Show Boat" is inarguably one of the most important musicals in the history of the American theatrical canon.

《演出船》無可爭議地是 美國戲劇史上最重要的音樂劇之一,

【102】It changed the kind of conversations we could have onstage and revolutionized what a musical could look like.

它改變了我們在舞臺上的對話方式, 并革新了音樂劇的形式。

【103】It also has ceased to create productive discussion with modern audiences.

但它已經(jīng)無法為現(xiàn)代觀眾 帶來富有成效的討論。

【104】Now the book has been rewritten ad nauseum as we continue to pull "Show Boat" into the modern era.

現(xiàn)在,當我們繼續(xù)將《演出船》 不斷地拉到現(xiàn)代時, 這本書已經(jīng)被重寫了無數(shù)次。

【105】But in my opinion, it now holds more value as an example of where we have been than an example of where we are going.

但在我看來, 它現(xiàn)在作為 我們已經(jīng)走過的歷程的一個例子, 比作為我們要去的未來的一個例子 更有價值。

【106】Now you may disagree with me on any of these placements.

你可能不同意 我對這些分類的看法。

【107】These six shows could exist in any number of categorical permutations.

這六個作品各自 也可以被劃在不同的分類里。

【108】What's important is that we have these discussions and we have the language to communicate in those discussions.

重要的是,我們有這些討論, 我們有進行這些討論的表達方式。

【109】We have to have these conversations because they are the only way that we will grow.

我們必須進行這些對話, 因為它們是我們成長的唯一方式。

【110】We have to make conscious decisions about what art does and does not serve us as a community and what does and does not serve us going forward.

我們必須做出有意識的決定, 決定哪些藝術是為 我們這個共同體服務的, 哪些是為我們未來服務的, 哪些不是。

【111】Thank you for listening to me today.

謝謝大家今天聆聽我的演講。

【112】I hope that we all have these difficult conversations with grace and consideration.

我希望我們都能優(yōu)雅、認真地 展開這些困難的對話。

【113】(Applause)

（掌聲）