這場大流行病使美國的看護危機成為焦點，而這為父母提供了支持。活動家和編碼女孩的創(chuàng)始人 Reshma Saujani 提出了一個解決這個問題的建議——她稱之為媽媽的馬歇爾計劃——她解釋了它旨在建立完全不同的系統(tǒng)以賦予在職父母權(quán)力的方式。（這次對話由 TED 時事策展人 Whitney Pennington Rodgers 主持，是獨家 T...

I found myself in the pandemic with two little kids,?working full time.?And Girls Who Code got a Super Bowl ad,?I mean, we were on top of the world.?And the pandemic hit?and I found myself having to go back to work,?take care of a newborn homeschool a six-year-old,?you know, and save my global nonprofit from being shut down.?And I think my entire leadership team was mostly working parents,?working moms,?and many of us were saying, "Well, when the schools open,?everything will be okay."?And when the schools didn't open?and they came up with this idea of hybrid learning,?you just saw millions of women being pushed out of the labor force.?So we lost, you know, again, decades of progress in nine months.

我發(fā)現(xiàn)自己和兩個小孩在大流行中，?全職工作。?編程女孩得到了超級碗廣告，?我的意思是，我們在世界之巔。?大流行病襲來?，我發(fā)現(xiàn)自己不得不回去工作，?照顧一個 6 歲的新生家庭學(xué)校，?你知道，我的全球非營利組織免于被關(guān)閉。?而且我認為我的整個領(lǐng)導(dǎo)團隊主要是在職父母，?在職媽媽，?我們中的許多人都在說，“好吧，當學(xué)校開學(xué)時，?一切都會好起來的。”?當學(xué)校沒有開學(xué)?并且他們提出了這種混合學(xué)習的想法時，?你就會看到數(shù)百萬女性被趕出勞動力市場。?因此，我們再次在九個月內(nèi)失去了數(shù)十年的進步。

And the reason why women had to leave the workforce?was because half of our daycare centers were shut down.?When you relied on elderly parents to come in?and help you with caretaking work,?they were no longer there or available?because everyone was terrified of this pandemic.?You know, for far too long,Americans have always paid more for their childcare?than they pay for their mortgage.?It is the largest cost center of families.And so when there were no kind of, available centers of care,women, who were already doing two thirds of the caretaking work,?had to supplement basically, their paid labor?for unpaid labor.?And you just, again, saw decades of progress?just vanish overnight.

女性不得不離開勞動力市場?的原因是我們有一半的日托中心被關(guān)閉了。?當您依靠年邁的父母來?幫助您照顧工作時，?他們不再在那里或可用?，因為每個人都對這種流行病感到恐懼。?你知道，很長一段時間以來，?美國人為托兒服務(wù)支付的費用總是?高于他們?yōu)榈盅嘿J款支付的費用。?它是家庭最大的成本中心。?因此，當沒有任何可用的護理中心時，?已經(jīng)承擔了三分之二護理工作的女性?不得不從根本上補充她們的有償勞動?來代替無償勞動。?而你又一次看到了幾十年的進步?一夜之間就消失了。

Now, some people thought, well, you know,?once the country gets back up on its feet and we open things up,?everything will be fine.?Well, two years later,?men have fully recovered all of their job losses.?Women are still missing.?And, you know, the latest labor statistics?does not account for the amount of women?who have downshifted their careers,?who have said, "Oh, I'm working full time,?I got to work part time now,"?because, again, half of daycare centers are still shut down.?Schools are still kind of inconsistent.?We still have a broken structure of care.

現(xiàn)在，有些人想，嗯，你知道，?一旦國家重新站起來，我們開放，一切都會好起來的。?好吧，兩年后，?男人們已經(jīng)完全恢復(fù)了他們所有的失業(yè)。?婦女仍然失蹤。?而且，你知道，最新的勞工統(tǒng)計數(shù)據(jù)并沒有考慮到有多少女性?降低了職業(yè)生涯，?她們說，“哦，我是全職工作，?我現(xiàn)在必須兼職工作”，?因為，再一次，一半的日托中心仍然關(guān)閉。?學(xué)校還是有點矛盾。?我們?nèi)匀挥幸粋€破碎的護理結(jié)構(gòu)。

And so for me, you know, Girls Who Code,?I've been spending 10 years telling girls to like, barnstorm the corner office?and lean in real hard and you know, girl-boss their way to the top.?And so I bought in to that sentiment,?well, if you just worked harder,?if you just tried more, you got a mentor, a sponsor,?or you learned how to color-code your calendar,?like, we would get to equality.?And the pandemic taught me that that was all a lie,?that I had been focused,?that we had been focused on the wrong thing,?and that we actually have to stop trying to fix women?and fix the structure.And the structures that allow women to work and be a motherhave always been broken.?We've been the only industrialized nation that doesn't offer paid leave.?We've built workplaces around a nine-to-five schedule?when schools were open eight to three.?We've always been having to balance it all, i.e. having to do it all.?And so we were never going to get to equality?until we started fixing the structure.?And quite frankly,?I think the abortion debate is part of that structural conversation.?You don't give control over women's ...?you know, about their ability how and when to have a child,?you take away their ability, quite frankly, to work on their terms.

所以對我來說，你知道，編程的女孩，?我已經(jīng)花了 10 年時間告訴女孩們喜歡，在角落里的辦公室里狂風暴雨，?然后真正努力地傾斜，你知道，女孩老板一路走上頂峰。?所以我接受了這種情緒，?好吧，如果你更努力地工作，?如果你嘗試更多，你就會有一個導(dǎo)師，一個贊助商，?或者你學(xué)會了如何用顏色編碼你的日歷，?比如，我們會實現(xiàn)平等。?大流行告訴我，那都是謊言，?我一直專注，?我們一直專注于錯誤的事情，?我們實際上必須停止試圖修復(fù)女性?并修復(fù)結(jié)構(gòu)。?允許女性工作和做母親的結(jié)構(gòu)?一直被打破。?我們是唯一一個不提供帶薪休假的工業(yè)化國家。?當學(xué)校八點到三點開學(xué)時，我們圍繞朝九晚五的時間表建立了工作場所。?我們一直不得不平衡這一切，即必須做這一切。因此，在我們開始修復(fù)結(jié)構(gòu)之前，我們永遠不會達到平等。坦率地說，我認為墮胎辯論是結(jié)構(gòu)性對話的一部分。你不能控制女性……你知道，關(guān)于她們?nèi)绾我约昂螘r生孩子的能力，坦率地說，你剝奪了她們按照自己的條件工作的能力。

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: What is the "Marshall Plan for Moms"

Whitney Pennington Rodgers：什么是“媽媽的馬歇爾計劃”

and where are we right now with it?

我們現(xiàn)在在哪里？

RS: We need the government and the private sector,?everybody, quite frankly, to re-imagine women in the workplace.?And so when I talk to moms?about what it is that they needed, you know,to be able to, again, reconcile those two identities?as the caretaker and as a worker,?you know, I kind of heard the same thing.?And it wasn't not that "Wow."?Like, it was obvious.?Moms said, you know, “I need paid leave.”?We're, like I said,?the only industrialized nation that doesn't offer paid leave.?Right?Affordable childcare.?We don't have it in this country.?The average American gets about 500 dollars?you know, in childcare benefits.?The average, in industrialized nation, parent gets 15,000.?So we are woefully under providing support?for parents in this country.

RS：坦率地說，?我們需要政府和私營部門，每個人都重新想象工作場所的女性。所以當我和媽媽們談?wù)?他們需要什么時，你知道，?為了能夠再次調(diào)和?作為看護人和工人的這兩種身份，?你知道，我聽到了同樣的話。?這不是“哇”。?就像，很明顯。?媽媽們說，你知道，“我需要帶薪休假?！?就像我說的，我們是?唯一一個不提供帶薪休假的工業(yè)化國家。?正確的？?負擔得起的托兒服務(wù)。?我們這個國家沒有。?你知道，美國人平均得到大約 500 美元?的托兒福利。?平均而言，在工業(yè)化國家，父母得到 15,000。?因此，我們在為?這個國家的父母提供支持的情況下，可悲的是。

School closures.?You know, I find that decision so interesting,?I want somebody to do, like an investigative report, right?Because, you know,?one of the interesting things in America?is that we have these things called time and leave studies.?So when the policy decision was made to close schools,?we had enough time,?enough data to say, well, who's doing the homeschooling?Who is this going to affect??What worker is this going to affect?And so we knew, policymakers knew?that the ramifications of school closures would dramatically affect women?and it wouldn't touch, as it didn't, men's labor.?And they did it.?Now, other nations across the globe, the UK, other you know,?they didn't close the schools.?They approached it from a different perspective, right?Or if they closed schools,?they had a plan?on what they were going to do to support women, to bring them back.?And so, school closures were part of this Marshall Plan for Moms.Retraining.?Many women found themselves in jobs?that were automated because of the pandemic?and jobs that weren't going to come back.?And so what was the plan to do retraining?since we know again,?so many women in this country are the breadwinners of their families.?So when they lose their job, the entire family suffers.

學(xué)校停課。?你知道，我覺得這個決定很有趣，?我希望有人去做，比如調(diào)查報告，對吧？?因為，你知道，?在美國有趣的事情之一?是我們有這些叫做時間和休假學(xué)習的東西。?因此，當做出關(guān)閉學(xué)校的政策決定時，?我們有足夠的時間、?足夠的數(shù)據(jù)來說明，好吧，誰在做家庭教育？?這會影響到誰？?這將影響哪些工人？?所以我們知道，政策制定者知道?學(xué)校停課的后果會極大地影響女性?，而且它不會觸及，因為它沒有觸及男性的勞動力。?他們做到了。?現(xiàn)在，全球其他國家，英國，其他你知道的，?他們沒有關(guān)閉學(xué)校。?他們從不同的角度來處理它，對吧？?或者，如果他們關(guān)閉了學(xué)校，?他們會制定計劃來支持女性，讓她們回來。?因此，學(xué)校停課是馬歇爾媽媽計劃的一部分。?再培訓(xùn)。?許多女性發(fā)現(xiàn)自己從事的工作?由于大流行?而被自動化，而且工作不會再回來了。?既然我們又知道了，那么再培訓(xùn)的計劃是什么?，這個國家有這么多女性是她們家庭的養(yǎng)家糊口的人。因此，當他們失去工作時，整個家庭都會受苦。

So that was the Marshall Plan for Moms.?We put out a full page ad in "The New York Times"?to President Biden saying,?"In your first 100 days, as you think about what you should focus on,focus on moms, focus on women."?And, you know, that turned into a couple pieces of legislation.?Now two years later, Whitney,we haven't passed the Marshall Plan for Moms.?And what I mean by that is we haven't passed any of the tenets.?We haven't passed paid leave,?we haven't passed affordable childcare,?and we let the child tax credit expire.?So we've bailed out airlines.?But we haven’t bailed out moms.?And, you know, for me as an activist, as a social entrepreneur,?looking at this is devastating,?because in many ways,?you're waiting for Congress to grow a heart.?You know, if there was ever going to be a moment?in the history of our country to pass paid leave,?for us to see, wow, what would have happened??How many, few[er] millions of people would have died from COVID?had they had paid leave, paid sick days?Had we approached this differently.?If there was ever a moment for reflection?for contemplation?for courage,?it was now.?And we didn't see it from our elected officials.

這就是媽媽的馬歇爾計劃。?我們在《紐約時報》上向拜登總統(tǒng)投放了整版廣告，說：?“在你的前 100 天里，當你思考你應(yīng)該關(guān)注什么時，關(guān)注媽媽，關(guān)注女性?！?而且，你知道，這變成了幾項立法。現(xiàn)在兩年后，惠特尼，我們還沒有通過針對媽媽的馬歇爾計劃。我的意思是我們沒有通過任何原則。我們還沒有通過帶薪休假，我們還沒有通過負擔得起的托兒服務(wù)，我們讓兒童稅收抵免到期。所以我們救助了航空公司。但我們還沒有救助媽媽們。而且，你知道，對于我作為一名活動家，作為一名社會企業(yè)家來說，?看著這是毀滅性的，?因為在很多方面，?你都在等待國會培養(yǎng)一顆心。?你知道，如果我們國家的歷史上曾經(jīng)有?過帶薪休假的時刻，?讓我們看看，哇，會發(fā)生什么？?如果有帶薪休假、帶薪病假，會有多少、更少[er]數(shù)百萬人死于新冠病毒？?如果我們以不同的方式處理這個問題。如果說曾經(jīng)有過反思、思考勇氣的時刻，那就是現(xiàn)在。And we didn't see it from our elected officials.

And the reality is, we can't leave millions of women behind.?And so we've really, at Marshall Plan for Moms,?turned to the private sector.?And I believe in the private sector.?You know, when I built Girls Who Code,?all of the money we raised was from the private sector.?And we ended up teaching half a million kids to code.?So the private sector, when it gets its arms around a problem,?can really innovate and can really help solve it.?And I think the opportunity we have here now, Whitney,?is with the great resignation?and the fact that there are so many open jobs,?it has become a seller's market for employees.?And so if there's ever been a moment to say, hey,?we need to start providing childcare benefits?and maybe even subsidizing people's childcare,?that's the way we actually solve it.?This is an economic problem, not a personal problem.?The moment for that conversation is now.

而現(xiàn)實是，我們不能把數(shù)百萬女性拋在后面。?因此，在馬歇爾媽媽計劃中，我們確實?轉(zhuǎn)向了私營部門。?我相信私營部門。?你知道，當我建立 Girls Who Code 時，?我們籌集的所有資金都來自私營部門。?我們最終教了 50 萬個孩子編程。?因此，私營部門在解決問題時，?可以真正創(chuàng)新并真正幫助解決問題。?惠特尼，我認為我們現(xiàn)在擁有的機會?在于巨大的辭職?以及有這么多空缺職位的事實，?它已成為員工的賣方市場。?所以如果有時間說，嘿，?我們需要開始提供托兒福利?，甚至可能補貼人們的托兒服務(wù)，這才?是我們真正解決問題的方式。?這是經(jīng)濟問題，不是個人問題。?對話的時刻就是現(xiàn)在。

WPR: Reshma, we have a question here from a TED Member, they ask,?"The pandemic has showed that women do an extra shift of work,?most of the heavy lifting at home, and upon returning to work,?playing the role of the emotional aunt in the workplace.?What should allyship look like now in order to support women?as we come out of the pandemic?"

WPR：Reshma，我們有一個來自 TED 成員的問題，他們問，?“大流行表明，女性會進行額外的輪班工作，?大部分繁重的工作都在家里，而在重返工作崗位后，她們?扮演著工作場所的情感阿姨。在?我們走出大流行病后，為了支持女性，現(xiàn)在應(yīng)該是什么樣的盟友？

RS: Talk about unpaid labor.?You know, what about all the unpaid labor women do at work??Who organizes the Christmas party or the Hanukkah party??Or the book clubs or the speakers or the D and I sessions??It’s always women, women of color, and we don’t get paid for that.?That's not part of our performance review,that's not part of our compensation package.?But we do it.?And quite frankly,?when we don't do it, we're penalized.

RS：談?wù)劅o償勞動。?你知道，女性在工作中所做的所有無償勞動怎么辦？?誰組織圣誕晚會或光明節(jié)晚會？?還是讀書俱樂部、演講者或 D 和 I 課程？?它總是女人，有色人種的女人，我們沒有得到報酬。這不是我們績效評估?的一部分，也不是我們薪酬方案的一部分。?但我們做到了。?坦率地說，?當我們不這樣做時，我們會受到懲罰。

I'll never forget, I was talking to a bunch of CIA agents, CIA agents,?and one of them had just had a baby.?And she said, "You know, Reshma,?that year, I did not organize the office Christmas party.?And that was also the year that I -- it was the only year --?I didn't get promoted.?And I can't prove it,?but I know it was because I didn't plan the Christmas party."

我永遠不會忘記，我正在和一群 CIA 特工、CIA 特工交談，?其中一個剛剛生了孩子。?她說：“你知道，瑞詩瑪，?那一年，我沒有組織辦公室的圣誕晚會。?那也是我——那是唯一一年——?沒有升職的那一年。?我不能?！辈荒茏C明這一點，?但我知道這是因為我沒有計劃圣誕派對?！?/span>

So there's also this expectation?when we don't do that unpaid labor at work,?that we're not productive, that we're not committed.?You know, so I think really having a conversationabout how we value that labor is critical.

因此，?當我們在工作中不做無償勞動時，也有這種期望?，我們沒有生產(chǎn)力，我們沒有承諾。?你知道，所以我認為?就我們?nèi)绾沃匾晞趧恿M行真正的對話至關(guān)重要。

WPR: One TED Member asks, “If it’s a buyer’s market for employees,?what do you think women should ask for first?from their employers when it comes to to better benefits??Is there one sticking thing?that you think really we should be focusing on?"

WPR：一位 TED 成員問道：“如果這是雇員的買方市場，那么在獲得更好的福利時，?你認為女性應(yīng)該首先?向雇主要求什么？?有沒有一件?你認為我們真的應(yīng)該關(guān)注的棘手的事情？”

RS: So what is happening is,?and I think especially in this movement about transparency in pay,?I think has really started to really shift some of the gender gap.?And so women, I think, are going in and saying, you know,?"I want to make more" or "How much are you paying him?"?And it's actually translating into higher earnings for them.?So I think when it comes to moms, I think three things.?So one of the things is we all have to get very clearabout what the pay gap is about.?Now, the pay gap is not about gender,?and it's not even about care work.?It's about mothers.The reason why there is a gender gap in pay?is the pay gap between mothers and fathers.?In fact, the largest pay gap exists between mothers and childless women.?And so we have got to, once and for all, close the pay gap.?So, for example,?if you leave the workforce to have a child?or take a break or whatever it is,you lose on average 40 percent of your income.?The good news now is that there's algorithms?and people that can come in?and literally root out the motherhood penalty.?So the number one thing is, is when you go in there and you ask,?you want to know what he is making.?You know what I mean, and you want to make the same or more.?I think the second thing is,?is we have to start asking for our companies?to pay for childcare benefits.?The reality is, the childcare business model is broken.?You know, we don’t pay childcare --?we pay zookeepers more than we pay childcare workers.?And so they don't make enough.?Now, that's why they're not coming back to work,?and there's so many open childcare positions?because the pay is not just,?and so we have to figure out --?So the government was supposed to,?by creating a ceiling on what you would pay in childcare expenses,?was supposed to be able to help close that gap?and help families offset the cost.Now, the government, Congress has said sorry, not sorry,?not passing the bill, right??So the private sector is the only other institution?that can come in here and fix the model.?When the private sector starts saying,?"OK, we are going to start offering childcare subsidies,?backup care, emergency care,?we're going to build daycare centers,?when they basically take responsibility for fixing the business model,?what's going to happen is a lot of entrepreneurs?are going to come into the space,?and the market is going to become efficient.?So this needs to happen.

RS：所以正在發(fā)生的事情是，?我認為尤其是在這場關(guān)于薪酬透明度的運動中，?我認為已經(jīng)真正開始真正改變一些性別差距。?因此，我認為，女性會走進來說，你知道，?“我想賺更多”或“你付給他多少錢？”?這實際上轉(zhuǎn)化為他們的更高收入。?所以我認為當談到媽媽時，我會想到三件事。?因此，其中一件事是我們都必須非常清楚?薪酬差距是什么。?現(xiàn)在，薪酬差距與性別?無關(guān)，甚至與護理工作無關(guān)。?是關(guān)于媽媽們的。?薪酬存在性別差距的原因是?父母之間的薪酬差距。?事實上，最大的薪酬差距存在于母親和沒有孩子的女性之間。?因此，我們必須一勞永逸地縮小薪酬差距。?因此，例如，?如果您離開勞動力市場去生孩子?或休息一下或其他任何事情，?您平均會損失 40% 的收入。?現(xiàn)在的好消息是，有算法?和人可以進來?并從字面上根除母性懲罰。?所以第一件事是，當你進去問，?你想知道他在做什么。?你知道我的意思，你想做同樣的或更多的。?我認為第二件事是，?我們必須開始要求我們的公司?支付托兒福利。?現(xiàn)實情況是，托兒業(yè)務(wù)模式被打破了。?你知道，我們不付托兒費——?我們付給動物園管理員的錢比付給托兒工的錢多。?所以他們賺的還不夠。現(xiàn)在，這就是他們不回來工作的原因，?有這么多空缺的托兒職位?，因為工資不公平，?所以我們必須弄清楚——?所以政府應(yīng)該?通過為你的工作設(shè)置一個上限將支付托兒費用，?應(yīng)該能夠幫助縮小這一差距?并幫助家庭抵消成本。?現(xiàn)在，政府，國會已經(jīng)說對不起，不是對不起，?沒有通過法案，對吧？?所以私營部門是唯一的其他機構(gòu)?可以進來修復(fù)模型。?當私營部門開始說：?“好吧，我們將開始提供兒童保育補貼、?后備護理、緊急護理，?我們將建立日托中心，?當他們基本上負責修復(fù)商業(yè)模式時，?將會發(fā)生的事情是很多企業(yè)家?將進入這個領(lǐng)域，?市場將變得高效。?所以這需要發(fā)生。

So I think it's very important for moms, women, allies,?everybody to come in and say,?"What are your childcare benefits?"?We have a study coming out which will show, with McKinsey,?probably next week,?which will basically prove the case?that this is the number one thing that parents want.?And this will be a driver of who they work for?and who they don't work for.?So it makes business sense if you care about attrition, if you care about, again,?the four million people that are leaving every month.?The way to retain them, the way to win that talent war?is to provide childcare.?WPR: There’s a question from TED Member Charlotte about a women’s general strike.?What do you think about that?

所以我認為媽媽、女性、盟友和?每個人都進來?問“你的育兒福利是什么”是非常重要的。?我們有一項研究將?在下周與麥肯錫合作，?這將基本上證明?這是父母想要的第一件事。?這將成為他們?yōu)檎l工作和不為誰工作的驅(qū)動因素。?因此，如果您關(guān)心減員，如果您再次關(guān)心?每月離職的 400 萬人，這在商業(yè)上是有意義的。?留住他們的方法，贏得這場人才大戰(zhàn)的方法?是提供托兒服務(wù)。?WPR：TED 成員夏洛特有一個關(guān)于女性總罷工的問題。?你怎么看？

RS: Oh, I love it, the Iceland strike, oh my God, yes.?Because, listen, I think that what happened in Iceland essentially?is women didn't go to work, they didn't get on a train,?they didn't make breakfast for their partners?and the entire country shut down.And that year they passed a really progressive law on pay equityand they got more women in elective office.?But it was an eye opener for people like, oh, wow, we really can't function,?you know what I mean, without women's participation.

RS：哦，我喜歡它，冰島罷工，哦，我的上帝，是的。?因為，聽著，我認為冰島發(fā)生的事情本質(zhì)上?是女性沒有去上班，沒有上火車，?沒有為伴侶做早餐，?整個國家都關(guān)閉了。?那一年，他們通過了一項非常進步的薪酬平等法?，他們讓更多的女性擔任民選職位。但這讓人們大開眼界，哦，哇，如果?沒有女性的參與，我們真的無法運作，你知道我的意思。

WPR: I'm curious what you think is the thing?that will ultimately motivate us to actually make it happen.?What do you see as the thing that's going to make the tide finally change?

WPR：我很好奇你認為?最終會激勵我們真正實現(xiàn)它的事情。?你認為什么東西會讓潮流最終改變？

RS: I think we have to build radically different systems.?That's why I'm obsessed with the workplace,?because I think the workplace is an example?of how we have to resist going back to the old normal,?because there’s actually alignment.?Nobody wants to go back to that old workplace.?Not men, not trans people,?not, you know, nonbinary, not my people of color,?like, nobody, that wasn't working for anybody.?You know, that hustle culture,?you know that idea that you give everything,?you work 80 hours a week?and you just like, fall apart, your mental health.?I mean, we can't go back to that.?You know, we can't go back to that.?And so this is our first test.?Are we up for building something new collectively, you know,?that will serve all of us and will bring us to a place?where I think we can all heal and have a little bit more time.

RS：我認為我們必須建立完全不同的系統(tǒng)。?這就是我癡迷于工作場所的原因，?因為我認為工作場所是?我們必須抵制回到舊常態(tài)的一個例子，?因為實際上存在一致性。?沒有人愿意回到那個舊工作場所。不是男人，不是跨性別者，?不是，你知道的，非二元的，不是我的有色人種，?比如，沒有人，這對任何人都不起作用。?你知道，那種忙碌的文化，?你知道你付出一切的想法，你?每周工作 80 小時?，你只是喜歡，崩潰，你的心理健康。?我的意思是，我們不能回到過去。?你知道，我們不能回到那個時候。?所以這是我們的第一個測試。?我們是否準備好共同建設(shè)一些新的東西，你知道，?這將為我們所有人服務(wù)，并將把我們帶到一個?我認為我們都可以治愈并有更多時間的地方。

You know, it's very hard to be empathetic and to be brave when you're exhausted.?And I think people are really exhausted right now.

你知道，當你筋疲力盡時，很難有同理心和勇敢。?我認為人們現(xiàn)在真的筋疲力盡。

I think the second is, I do this,?I think we’ve got to keep talking to people who don’t agree with us.?You know, my favorite audiences to talk about "Pay Up" are men.?And people always say to me, "Well, how do you convince the men?"?I'm like, no, the men are with me, with us.?We think they're not, but they are.?And so it’s everyone’s perspective:?"The reason why we don't have these things in this book is because of men."?No, it's not because of men.?You know what I mean, that's not the problem.?It's because of the power?and the way that we've traditionally created workplaces.?So you also then, when you talk to people who you think are not your allies?or who you think may be against you, you sometimes are surprised.?I mean, it's the same thing with Girls Who Code,?it's like, 40 percent of my teachers are men.

我認為第二個是，我這樣做，?我認為我們必須繼續(xù)與不同意我們的人交談。?你知道，我最喜歡談?wù)摗癙ay Up”的聽眾是男性。?人們總是對我說，“嗯，你怎么說服男人？”?我想，不，男人和我在一起，和我們在一起。?我們認為他們不是，但他們是。?所以這是每個人的觀點：?“我們在這本書中沒有這些東西的原因是因為男人?！?不，這不是因為男人。?你知道我的意思，那不是問題。?這是因為我們傳統(tǒng)上創(chuàng)建工作場所的力量和方式。?因此，當您與您認為不是您的盟友的人交談時，您也是如此?或者你認為可能反對你的人，你有時會感到驚訝。?我的意思是，與 Girls Who Code?一樣，我的老師 40% 是男性。

So that's how you build movements.?And for me as a social entrepreneur building my second movement, you know,?with Marshall Plan for Moms,?that is a big lesson that I learned.?Is that you can't keep talking to the converted.?We've got to convert.[Get access to thought-provoking events you won't want to miss.]

這就是你構(gòu)建動作的方式。?對我作為一名社會企業(yè)家來說，?通過馬歇爾媽媽計劃，?這是我學(xué)到的重要一課。?是你不能繼續(xù)和皈依者交談。?我們必須轉(zhuǎn)換。?[訪問您不想錯過的發(fā)人深省的活動。]?