近日，CRTKL董事劉曉光受邀參與由BBC出品的《Business Matters》播客欄目，與Sam Fenwick一起探討中國(guó)商業(yè)領(lǐng)域近20年的發(fā)展變遷，并以西單更新場(chǎng)為例，討論疫情背景下，城市公共空間與商業(yè)空間的融合，以及生活方式轉(zhuǎn)變?nèi)绾斡绊憟?chǎng)所營(yíng)造趨勢(shì)。

Recently, Xiaoguang Liu, Principal of CRTKL, was invited to participate in the BBC’s "Business Matters" podcast to discuss with Sam Fenwick the development and changes in China's commercial field over the past 20 years. Taking The New (Xidan Cultural Plaza Renovation) as an example, Xiaoguang discussed the integration of urban public and commercial spaces in the epidemic context, and how place-making has become a trend with people's changing lifestyles.

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36:28-42:32 Business Matters音頻：00:0006:04

FENWICK?我們來探討一下當(dāng)前中國(guó)的商業(yè)購(gòu)物領(lǐng)域?，F(xiàn)如今，世界各地的設(shè)計(jì)師正試圖重塑購(gòu)物中心的用途，構(gòu)想未來購(gòu)物中心的樣子。在疫情影響下，實(shí)體空間被迫長(zhǎng)期停業(yè)，越來越多的人不得不選擇線上購(gòu)物，這使業(yè)界更加關(guān)注未來商業(yè)購(gòu)物領(lǐng)域的發(fā)展方向。來自北京的建筑師同仁們?cè)谌绾翁幚砝吓f的零售空間方面為我們提供了方向。CRTKL對(duì)北京市中心天安門廣場(chǎng)附近的一座老舊購(gòu)物中心進(jìn)行了改造設(shè)計(jì)，我也曾與該項(xiàng)目的建筑師劉曉光談?wù)撨^這個(gè)地方的特別之處。

Let's move on and talk about shopping now in China because around the world designers are trying to reimagine what shopping malls are used for and what they should be looking like. The pandemic brought that into sharp focus when shops were closed for long periods of time and more of us were forced to shop online. Architects in Beijing are leading the way in what to do with redundant retail space. They've developed an old shopping center in the heart of the city very close to Tiananmen square. I've been speaking to the architect, Xiaoguang Liu about why this location is so special.

鳥瞰圖 Aerial montage showing project in urban context

總平面圖 Site Plan

LIU?我成長(zhǎng)于這個(gè)城市，后來又在外學(xué)習(xí)工作。這里有我兒時(shí)的生活記憶，這附近有很多商場(chǎng)，母親時(shí)常帶我來這里。西單文化廣場(chǎng)比較特別，它的位置和歷史都很特殊。這次改造恰逢中國(guó)城市發(fā)展從大拆大建向城市更新轉(zhuǎn)型。政府和我們的業(yè)主希望把它作為一個(gè)窗口，向世界展示北京一些最好的東西。

I grew up in the city and studied and worked abroad. To me, this place is strangely familiar. It’s one of the childhood places that my mom used to take me to. There are many shops and shopping centers here. This one is special because of its location and history. This latest redevelopment happens at a time when China shifted from fast and mega development to urban renewal. The government and the client expect the project to showcase what Beijing as a city has to offer.

改造前 - 項(xiàng)目基地狀態(tài)演變的歷史圖片（部分圖片來源于網(wǎng)絡(luò)） Historical images showing evolution of the place and state prior to the renovation（some images come from the Internet）

FENWICK?所以，這是座有歷史的購(gòu)物中心，也曾經(jīng)像世界各地的許多購(gòu)物中心一樣在逐漸衰敗……

So it was a shopping center many years ago and it became run down as many shopping centers around the world have done.

LIU?是的，這座購(gòu)物中心在城市廣場(chǎng)地下，至今已有約20年歷史，那時(shí)的建造標(biāo)準(zhǔn)和現(xiàn)在大不相同。

Exactly, it was a shopping center underneath an urban plaza, and was built some 20 years ago when the standards were very different.

改造前后的模型對(duì)比 Model view – The hidden destination is only fully visible from above (Before & After)

FENWICK?而且20年間商業(yè)購(gòu)物領(lǐng)域已經(jīng)發(fā)生了很大的變化。

And shopping has changed a lot in 20 years.

LIU?巨大的變化。

Greatly.

FENWICK?您是如何將改變帶入新的購(gòu)物中心的？因?yàn)橄啾?0年前，零售空間的需求明顯在減弱，而我猜想這個(gè)情況在中國(guó)與在美國(guó)、英國(guó)和歐洲是一樣的？

How did you bring that into the new shopping center? Because we don't need as much retail space as we used to have 20 years ago. I'm assuming that's the same in China as is in the US and the UK and Europe.

LIU?是的，這既是中國(guó)的購(gòu)物中心所面臨的境況，也是一個(gè)普遍現(xiàn)象。中國(guó)、美國(guó)和其它地區(qū)的人們都在問，購(gòu)物中心是不是已經(jīng)死亡了。據(jù)我們觀察，人們還是會(huì)光顧購(gòu)物中心，但目的卻與先前大不相同。他們?nèi)ベ?gòu)物中心不再僅是為了購(gòu)買商品，更可能是為了獲得體驗(yàn)、提升自我和進(jìn)行社交。特別值得我們關(guān)注的是我們稱之為Z世代的年輕群體，他們的行為模式有明顯的代際特征，更喜歡張揚(yáng)個(gè)性和嘗試分享新鮮事物。令人興奮的是，城市設(shè)計(jì)里的場(chǎng)所營(yíng)造一時(shí)間被賦予了新的意義，幾乎也是一個(gè)被更新了的概念。

You're right. It happens in China, but I believe it is universal, right? One of the questions people brought up is actually not only in China, but in the States and elsewhere are the Malls dead. So to our observation and people still go to shopping malls, but for a whole different set of reasons, and they don't just go there to shop for goods or commodities, right? They go there for a special experience, personal betterment, and social interactions. And one particular group to watch is the young generation of what we call GEN Z and their behaviors are certainly very different than the current. This group like to go places. So to our excitement, placemaking in urban design, all of a sudden just got put on a new meaning, and almost reinvented itself.

FENWICK?那么它現(xiàn)在是什么樣子的？相比20年前，它有何不同？

And so what does it look like now? Compared to 20 years ago.

LIU?這次改造是一次徹底重建，相當(dāng)于一次再生。雖然仍然是地下商業(yè)空間和地面公共空間的組合，但所有的空間不再獨(dú)立存在。以前封閉的地下空間現(xiàn)在可以直接接觸到自然光和自然景觀。城市公共空間和商業(yè)空間融為一體。

The place has been totally reconstructed, remade, and in a way reborn. It's still composed of underground retail space and public space above, but is no longer segregated. What used to be enclosed subterranean space now gets direct exposure to daylight and natural landscape. Public spaces or urban spaces are merged with commercial spaces.

改造前后的剖面圖對(duì)比 Section (Before & After)

室內(nèi)廣場(chǎng) - “蒼穹下” Indoor Plaza View - “Under the Sky”

陽(yáng)光引入空間深處 - “天光云影” Natural lights are brought into depth of space

FENWICK?這座購(gòu)物中心于大約12個(gè)月前開業(yè)營(yíng)運(yùn)，那時(shí)我們處在疫情影響中，現(xiàn)在也還處于疫情管控狀態(tài)。那么您如何知道這座購(gòu)物中心是否受歡迎？現(xiàn)在人們可能不能像疫情發(fā)生前那樣自由出入，想去哪里就去哪里。

The center opened 12 months ago that we were still in the kind of the height of the pandemic then, weren't we? I know that you're on lockdowns now at the moment as well. So how do you know whether this center is popular or not? Because maybe people can't get out to it as they would perhaps do when we aren't in lockdown.

LIU?這是一個(gè)很好和有意思的問題。疫情和它引發(fā)的各種困難事實(shí)上為我們提供了一個(gè)非常難得的機(jī)會(huì)和角度，來觀察我們前面談到的社會(huì)形態(tài)和生活方式的轉(zhuǎn)變。我們看到的是，人們抓住疫情間隙的各種機(jī)會(huì)走出來，結(jié)伴前往公共開放空間。在某種意義上這恰恰證明了人們是多么喜歡和需要這種類型的空間。場(chǎng)所營(yíng)造正以一種新的方式受到社會(huì)關(guān)注。

That's a good question and an interesting one. The pandemic and whatever problems and hardships it created actually give us a rare opportunity and angle to observe what we just talked about - social transformation and changes in lifestyle. What we see here is that people are taking opportunities, any opportunities between the lockdowns to get out and get out together to open spaces, which in a way proves how people value and appreciate these kinds of spaces. Placemaking has become a big deal, in a new way.

望向下沉廣場(chǎng) The NEW ground - Overlooking the sunken plaza

步入下沉廣場(chǎng) - “臺(tái)上” On Stage – Steps leading to the sunken plaza

FENWICK?您說這個(gè)廣場(chǎng)以及這座購(gòu)物中心的改造重建向人們展示了一種新的方式。您認(rèn)為它有中國(guó)之外的示范作用嗎？從中可能收獲什么？

You said that the redevelopment of this square and the shopping center shows that it could be done in a new way. Do you think it's also shown to people outside China? Also, what can be achieved?

LIU?希望如此，這也確實(shí)是我們的設(shè)計(jì)目標(biāo)之一。這個(gè)項(xiàng)目?jī)H僅具有中國(guó)特征是不夠的。當(dāng)?shù)厥忻窨赡軓奈聪氲侥軌蛟诒本┑暮诵膮^(qū)域看到這樣的設(shè)計(jì)，這是一個(gè)鼓舞人心的結(jié)果。我相信這樣的設(shè)計(jì)也可以出現(xiàn)在其它地方。設(shè)計(jì)概念出自特定的中國(guó)文化，但采用了現(xiàn)代的設(shè)計(jì)語(yǔ)言，讓它能夠被更多人理解和欣賞。設(shè)計(jì)的這種雙重性增添了項(xiàng)目的獨(dú)特魅力。

I certainly hope so, and that's really one of the design objectives. Locals might never think something like this could happen in Beijing at such a close distance to the city center, which speaks volumes for the design. I could see such a project happen in other places. The story is in a Chinese context, and the storytelling is in a universal language that people could understand and appreciate. This kind of duality is built into the design, and I think makes the project unique and attractive.

下沉廣場(chǎng) - “云起時(shí)” Sunken Plaza view – “Rising Clouds”

近景 - “山與水” Close-up View – “Mountain and Water”

臺(tái)地 - “畫中游” Terrace View – “Into the Picture”

下沉廣場(chǎng)夜景 - “潛入夜” Blending into the Night

FENWICK?我看過項(xiàng)目照片，它看起來確實(shí)非常震撼。中間高起來的區(qū)域和廣場(chǎng)上如今已經(jīng)樹木蔥郁。

I've seen the photographs. It really does look quite striking as well. The built-up area in the middle and the plaza are now covered in trees.

鳥瞰 - 城市森林 Aerial Perspective – An Urban Forest

四季變化 Seasonal Transformations - Sense and sensations of the place