If there was a way to make sure that no innocent person is ever executed, would you be for or against the death penalty? Why?

如果有辦法確保沒有無辜的人被執(zhí)行死刑，你會贊成還是反對死刑？為什么？

注：最近一直在看邢偵案件的紀(jì)錄片，彈幕里對于兇手是否應(yīng)該判死刑或者當(dāng)兇手沒有被判死刑時總是會有很大的爭議，所以我也想看看外國人是這么看這個問題的。于是打開Reddit，輸入關(guān)鍵詞，發(fā)現(xiàn)最近正好有一篇爭論死刑的帖子，而且看來他們的分歧也很大，回帖足足有4000多條，一起來看看他們都說了些什么吧。
 

評論翻譯

原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.ltaaa.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處


robolew
Because the death penalty is used as more of a political statement than a tool to make society better

因為死刑更多地被用作一種政治聲明，而不是一種讓社會變得更好的工具。

Bisbane
If you walked outside and killed a random person right now 99% chance you wouldn't get the death penalty. You would though if you killed a cop or a kid or if you killed that person during the commission of another crime (robbery, rape, arson, murder). That's the gist of it in Texas anyways.

如果你現(xiàn)在走出去，隨機(jī)殺死一個路人，那你99%不會被判死刑。不過，如果你殺了一個警察或一個孩子，或者你在另一次犯罪(搶劫、強(qiáng)奸、縱火、謀殺)中殺死了某個人，你就會被判。不管怎么說，這就是德克薩斯州的主旨。

smgiese
Did you know that the death penalty actually costs the state more than giving a life sentence? https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty The problem lies with the lengthy appeals process, which results in vastly increased court costs for the state. In addition, during this lengthy appeals process, we usually keep these prisoners in higher security "death rows", which lead to further increased costs. Obviously, in this theoretical scenario where we have 100% certainty on guilt, this is less of an issue. In real life, this is a common misconception that the death penalty is cheaper. It is not.

你知道死刑比判無期徒刑更讓國家付出更多的代價嗎？問題在于上訴過程冗長，導(dǎo)致政府的法庭費用大幅增加。此外，在這個漫長的上訴過程中，我們通常把這些囚犯關(guān)在更安全的“死囚牢房”中，從而導(dǎo)致費用進(jìn)一步增加。很明顯，在這個假設(shè)的場景中，我們對罪人有罪有百分之百的把握，所以這就不是什么問題了。但現(xiàn)實生活中，這是一種常見的誤解，即死刑更便宜。不是的。

LeJeuDuProchainTrain
Upvote. No one seems to know this. Death penalty is wayyy more expensive than life without parole.

好評。似乎沒人知道這個。死刑比終身監(jiān)禁更昂貴。

Rules_are_for_fools
That's because there is a huge appeals process in place, and lawyers, judges, and prison are all expensive. In the hypothetical question asked by OP there's a magical system that is never wrong, so we don't need any of the currently expensive stuff. A person could be found guilty in the morning and be dead before lunch.

這是因為有一個繁雜的上訴程序，律師，法官，和監(jiān)獄都是昂貴的。在帖主提出的假設(shè)問題中，有一個神奇的永遠(yuǎn)不會出錯的體系，所以我們不需要任何這些昂貴的東西。一個人可能會在早上被判有罪，在午餐前就處決了。

LeJeuDuProchainTrain
I didn't realize the thread was implying a magical system. But my comment was directed toward the many people using cost as a reason for their beliefs. Believe what you want, but it's always best to know the facts.
And aside from that I'm still strongly against the death penalty in any context. Life without prison could easily be argued to be cruel and even torture, but to me executing someone crosses a line. It's motivated by emotions, vengeance. Our society and legal system should not stoop to the level of the criminal, and it shouldn't bend for our emotions.

我沒有注意這個帖子有提到有這么一個神奇的系統(tǒng)。但我的評論是針對許多人，他們以成本作為他們信仰死刑的理由。相信你想要的，但也要了解一下事實。
除此之外，我仍然強(qiáng)烈反對任何情況下的死刑。沒有監(jiān)獄的生活很容易被認(rèn)為是殘忍甚至是酷刑，但對我來說，處決某人是越界的。它是由情感和復(fù)仇所驅(qū)動的。我們的社會和法律體系不應(yīng)墮落到罪犯的水平，也不應(yīng)該屈服于我們的情感。

shrubs311
It's motivated by emotions, vengeance.
I can see a world in which it's not though. There is a person who rapes and murders children, he is in jail for life without parole. He has accepted his death, and he clearly will not reform. The prison system can spend money and resources keeping him alive until he dies naturally. A vigilante kills him in prison. This saves the prison resources and money, which they can use to rehabilitate other people.
The death penalty is expensive because of appeals processes and lawyers and such, but killing someone just takes a tank of gas and a mask. If people choose not to reform or otherwise aren't reforming, they're a drain on society and making it harder to help people who want it.

“它是由情感和復(fù)仇所驅(qū)動的。”
我可以看到一個并非如此的世界。有一個人強(qiáng)奸和謀殺兒童，他被判終身監(jiān)禁，不得假釋。他已經(jīng)接受了他的死亡，并且他顯然不會洗心革面。監(jiān)獄系統(tǒng)可以花費金錢和資源來維持他的生命直到他自然死亡。也可以由一名警官將他殺死，節(jié)省監(jiān)獄的資源和資金，他們可以用來改造其他人。
死刑的代價很高，這是因為上訴程序和律師等等，但殺人只需要一罐毒氣和面具。如果那些人選擇不改變，那他們是對社會資源的消耗，使幫助那些想要洗心革面的人變得更加困難。

undercooked_lasagna
Everyone knows this because it's repeated in literally every single debate about the death penalty, even though it's a really disingenuous argument.

每個人都知道這一點，因為在每一場有關(guān)死刑的辯論中都重復(fù)了這一說法，盡管這是一個非常虛偽的論點（注：就是死刑比終身監(jiān)禁更貴）。

xyop
In the US*. The US system is very slow with lots of appeals etc.
Plenty of other countries have death penalties which are carried out fairly swiftly, with less appeal etc and it's definitely cheaper for many of them than keeping people imprisoned.
I know reddit often forgets this site isn't only Americans talking about America but the death penalty doesn't have to be more expensive. It is in the US, and it's probably better when it is that way because it gives more chance for wrongly convicted people to successfully appeal, but it doesn't have to be especially in this fantasy scenario where no innocent person will ever be executed.

在美國（重點）。美國的制度非常緩慢，有很多上訴程序等等。
許多其他國家的死刑執(zhí)行得相當(dāng)迅速，上訴也較少，而且對許多國家來說，死刑肯定比監(jiān)禁更便宜。我知道Reddit經(jīng)常忘記這個網(wǎng)站不僅僅是美國人在談?wù)撁绹?，而且死刑也不一定會更昂貴。至于在美國，如果是這樣的話可能會更好，因為它給了被錯誤定罪的人更多的成功上訴的機(jī)會，但在這種幻想的場景中沒有無辜的人會被處決。

Jumaai
Making death penalty proceedings as hard and expensive as possible was one of the main strategies of the anti death penalty movement. At the same time as they were lobbying for laws, they were also pouring tons of money into setting precedents.
Now they argue that death penalty is financially illogical, after they have made it to be.

使死刑訴訟盡可能困難和昂貴是反死刑運動的主要戰(zhàn)略之一。在他們?yōu)榉捎握f的同時，他們也投入了大量的資金來建立先例。
現(xiàn)在他們當(dāng)然認(rèn)為死刑在經(jīng)濟(jì)上是不合邏輯的。

------------------------------------------

KingofSnipers
Eh let’s face it. I wouldn’t mind sentencing some pedophiles to death penalty. I know, unpopular opinion but if you touched kids then there’s literally no redemption from that.

呃，讓我們面對現(xiàn)實吧。我不介意判一些戀童癖死刑。我知道，這是個不受歡迎的觀點，但如果你碰了孩子，那就根本沒有救贖的余地了。

Peacemaker_58
You're in college. A 22 year old. You meet a girl at a college party. She had a drink in her hand so you assumed she's 21. She told you she was 18. You hooked up. Turns out shes 14. She certainly looked like she could have been 18. She definitely told ypu she was 18. Technically you just raped a child. But did you? Are you a pedophile?
So there are some instances where I wouldn't think it is deserved, but the people who molest 5 year olds and shit, yeah they can die.

假設(shè)你22歲，在上大學(xué)。你在大學(xué)派對上遇見了一個女孩。她手里拿著一杯飲料，所以你以為她21歲了。她告訴你她18歲了。你倆就勾搭上了。但結(jié)果她才14歲。她看起來應(yīng)該是18歲了。她也肯定地告訴過你她18歲了。但嚴(yán)格來說你剛剛強(qiáng)奸了一個孩子。不是嗎？那么你是戀童癖嗎？
所以在某些情況下，我認(rèn)為這是不應(yīng)該的，但是那些騷擾5歲孩子的人，是的，他們應(yīng)該被判死刑。

magikarpcandosplash
That's not pedophilia, that's statutory rape. A pedophilia is a main attraction towards children. That is, a person is more attracted to children than to adults. If someone is attracted to adults, but had sex with a child despite their sexual preference, it's not pedophilia.
This is the same reason why bestiality =/= zoophilia. Action does not necessarily signify a paraphilia diagnosis.

那不是戀童癖，那是法定的強(qiáng)奸。對戀童癖而言，“兒童”是主要吸引力。也就是說，一個人，孩子對他的吸引力比成年人的吸引力大。如果某人被成年人吸引，盡管因為性偏好和一個孩子發(fā)生了性關(guān)系，這也不能說是戀童癖。
這也是為什么人獸性行為=/=嗜獸癖的原因。行動不一定意味著解釋性診斷。

Peacemaker_58
But you fucked a 14 year old.

但你上了一個14歲的孩子。

Freeiheit
Pedophilia: sexual desire in an adult for a child.
Pedophilia is the attraction to children. If you legitimately mistook the 14 year old for someone of-age, and she actually looked like she was of age, that doesn't count as being attracted to children.

戀童癖：成人對孩子的性欲。
戀童癖對兒童感到沉迷。如果你合法地把14歲的人誤認(rèn)為是個年紀(jì)大的人，而她看起來像也像是這個年紀(jì)的人，那就不算被兒童吸引了。

Peacemaker_58
Ah, I guess I thought there was a pedophile aspect to crimes committed with younger people, so a legal difference not just an attraction difference.

啊哈，我想我認(rèn)為那里會對年輕人犯下的犯罪行為都認(rèn)定為戀童癖，所以法律上的差異不只是吸引力的差異。

Freeiheit
It depends on the jurisdiction, but actual pedophiles wouldn't even be attracted to a 14 year old girl if she looked like she was of age; they're only attracted to ore pubescent children. That's why they're pedophiles

這取決于司法管轄權(quán)，但真正的戀童癖者甚至不會被一個14歲的女孩所吸引，如果她看起來像一個年紀(jì)大的女孩的話；他們只會被青春期的孩子吸引。所以他們才是戀童癖。

xoites
Against.
Knew a convicted murderer who spent twenty years in prison and spent the rest of his life running a homeless shelter. Nicest guy I ever met.
We are all capable of horrible actions, but we are all capable of changing our lives. Can't become a better person if you are dead.

反對。
我知道一名被判有罪的兇手，他在獄中度過了二十年，終其一生都在經(jīng)營一個給無家可歸的人的庇護(hù)所。他我見過的最好的人。
我們都有能力做可怕的事情，但我們都有能力改變我們的生活。如果你死了，就不能成為更好的人。

Dr-Absurd
It's enlightening to know that some convicted murderers actually redeemed themselves in the end. I have always thought they all remain the same cuz all assholes in my life are still asshole and arguably worse as they get older.

知道一些被判有罪的殺人犯最終會自我救贖，這很有啟發(fā)性。我一直認(rèn)為他們都是不會變的，因為在我的生活中，所有的混蛋都一直是混蛋，而且隨著年齡的增長，情況可能會更糟。

Swinepits
Maybe he used the shelter as a front for his hobo murder dungeon.

也許他把庇護(hù)所用作他謀殺流浪漢的幌子。

ZypherMyth
Not all murderers as psychopathic serial killers. Some have treatable mental illness. Many more were forced into criminal actions because of their economic situation or the environment they were stuck in (i.e. poverty breeds crime, gang violence, etc.).
It doesn't justify their actions but it means they committed their crimes for a reason - not just because they found "joy" in killing.

不是所有的殺人犯都是變態(tài)連環(huán)殺手。有些人患有可治療的精神疾病。更多的人因經(jīng)濟(jì)狀況或所處的環(huán)境而被迫采取犯罪行動(即貧困滋生犯罪、幫派暴力等)。
這并不能為他們的行為辯護(hù)，但這意味著他們犯罪是有原因的-不僅僅是因為他們在殺人中找到了“快樂”。

superdago
Murder has one of the lowest recidivism rates. Most instances of killing someone were brought about by a very specific set of circumstances that don't readily repeat themselves.

謀殺的再犯率是最低的。大多數(shù)殺人事件都是由一組非常具體的情況造成的，而這些情況并不容易重演。

ReadingIsRadical
This is by far the best account of a murderer turning his life around I've ever seen. It's rare, but some people do it. This guy killed a kid with a chisel just to watch him die, and ended up working in a hospital, writing a field guide to Puerto Rican birds, and trying to start a foundation to stop any children from making the same mistakes he had.
This story in particular is a big reason I can't ever get behind the death penalty. People really can change, even if they usually don't.

這是迄今為止我見過的一個殺人犯改變生活的最好的敘述。很少見，但有些人會這么做。有個家伙用鑿子殺死了一個孩子，只是為了看著他死去，最后他在醫(yī)院工作，寫了一本波多黎各鳥類野外指南，并試圖建立一個基金會來阻止任何兒童去犯同樣的錯誤。
特別是這個故事，是我永遠(yuǎn)無法支持死刑的一個重要原因。人們真的可以改變，即使他們通常不會。

marry_me_sarah_palin
Like when they executed Tookie. There wasn't a question about his guilt, but he had reformed himself in prison, and was trying to be an advocate for non-violence, and teaching the inner city youth not to follow his path. He could have lived out his years in prison helping society, while also being punished for his crime. I don't get what our society gained by executing him.

就像他們處決圖奇那樣。沒有人質(zhì)疑他犯下的罪行，但他在獄中改過自新，試圖成為非暴力的倡導(dǎo)者，并教導(dǎo)市中心的年輕人不要走他的路。他本可以在監(jiān)獄里度過他的歲月，幫助社會，同時也為他的罪行而受到懲罰。我不知道通過處決他我們的社會得到了什么好處。
（注：此人被阿諾施瓦辛格當(dāng)州長時親自駁回了撤銷死刑的請求，被執(zhí)行注射死刑）

M_Night_Shamylan
Governor Schwarzenegger at the time put it very succinctly, by saying it's impossible to claim he was redeemed while also claiming he was innocent.
Tookie Williams adamantly claimed he was innocent until the end, refusing to take responsibility for his actions when the evidence showed overwhelmingly that he was guilty. He said he would not and should not apologize for his actions.
You cant deny you took part in a crime that you obviously did and still claim to be redeemed.

當(dāng)時的州長施瓦辛格非常簡潔地說，他（圖奇）不可能在聲稱自己無罪的同時，聲稱自己得到了救贖。
圖奇·威廉姆斯一直堅稱自己是無辜的，當(dāng)證據(jù)顯示他有罪時，他拒絕為自己的行為承擔(dān)責(zé)任。他說他不會也不應(yīng)該為自己的行為道歉。
你不能在否認(rèn)你參與了一場明顯的犯罪的同時，又聲稱自己被救贖了。

metallica3790
Vengeance is a hell of a drug. Some people feel like death is what is deserved.

復(fù)仇是一種非?？膳碌亩酒贰Ｓ行┤擞X得死亡是他們罪有應(yīng)得的。

gigglefarting
My Father-in-law's sister was raped and murdered when she was a teenager. When the man who committed the crime got out of prison, he did it again. Sure, he couldn't become a better person if he was dead, but there would a person who is better than him that would still be living if he died the first time in prison.

我岳父的妹妹在她十幾歲的時候就被強(qiáng)奸和謀殺了。當(dāng)犯罪的人出獄時，他又犯了一次。當(dāng)然，如果他死了，他就不能成為一個更好的人了，但是，如果他第一次就死在監(jiān)獄里，就會有一個比他更好的人好好地活著。

pics-or-didnt-happen
Can't become a better person if you are dead.
The victim never got that chance. Why should their killer?

“如果你死了，就不能成為更好的人?！?br/>受害者已經(jīng)失去了這樣的機(jī)會。兇手憑什么擁有？

ben_howler
I'd be "pro choice". I don't think, we should murder anyone, for any reason. But if the perp himself chooses death over a long/life sentence, I'd grant them their wish.

我會讓他們“自主選擇”。我不認(rèn)為我們應(yīng)該以任何理由謀殺任何人。但如果罪犯自己選擇了死刑而不是無期徒刑，我會滿足他們的愿望。

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