TED演講者：Reshma Saujani / Reshma Saujani

演講標(biāo)題：How to reimagine society for working parents / 如何為工作的父母重新構(gòu)想社會(huì)

內(nèi)容概要：The pandemic brought into sharp focus the crisis in caregiving in the United States, which woefully under provides support for parents. Activist and Girls Who Code founder Reshma Saujani has a proposal to address that -- something she calls the Marshall Plan for Moms -- and she unpacks how it aims to build radically different systems in order to empower working parents. (This conversation, hosted by TED current affairs curator Whitney Pennington Rodgers, was part of an exclusive T...

疫情讓美國的照管危機(jī)浮上臺(tái)面成為焦點(diǎn)，父母能取得的支援非常不足?；顒?dòng)家以及「程式女孩」的創(chuàng)辦人瑞許瑪?沙哈尼針對(duì)這個(gè)問題，有一個(gè)提案，她稱之為「母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫」，她會(huì)說明這個(gè)計(jì)畫如何能建立非常不同的體制，賦權(quán)給在職家長。（本談話的主持人是TED的時(shí)事策展人惠妮?潘寧頓?羅杰斯，本談話是2022年3月23日的TED會(huì)員活動(dòng)的一部分。

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【1】I found myself in the pandemic with two little kids, working full time.

我的處境是:在疫情期間, 有兩個(gè)年幼的孩子, 做全職工作。

【2】And Girls Who Code got a Super Bowl ad, I mean, we were on top of the world.

我的組織「程式女孩」上了 超級(jí)杯廣告,我們一帆風(fēng)順。

【3】And the pandemic hit and I found myself having to go back to work, take care of a newborn homeschool a six-year-old, you know, and save my global nonprofit from being shut down.

接著,疫情來襲。 我發(fā)現(xiàn)我得回去工作, 照顧一個(gè)新生兒, 拯救我的非營利全球組織免于倒閉。

【4】And I think my entire leadership team was mostly working parents, working moms, and many of us were saying, "Well, when the schools open, everything will be okay."

我的整個(gè)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)團(tuán)隊(duì)成員 大多數(shù)都是在工作的家長, 在工作的母親, 我們很多人在說:「等學(xué)校開放, 一切就會(huì)沒事了?！?/p>

【5】And when the schools didn't open and they came up with this idea of hybrid learning, you just saw millions of women being pushed out of the labor force.

當(dāng)學(xué)校沒有開放,他們想出了 「混合學(xué)習(xí)」這個(gè)點(diǎn)子, 你就會(huì)看到數(shù)百萬名女性被迫脫離勞動(dòng)力。

【6】So we lost, you know, again, decades of progress in nine months.

所以,我們?cè)俅?失去了數(shù)十年的進(jìn)展,

【7】And the reason why women had to leave the workforce was because half of our daycare centers were shut down.

女性必須要脫離勞動(dòng)力的原因是因?yàn)?有一半的日間托兒所都關(guān)閉了。

【8】When you relied on elderly parents to come in and help you with caretaking work, they were no longer there or available because everyone was terrified of this pandemic.

如果你要仰賴你年邁的父母 前來協(xié)助你照顧孩子, 他們已經(jīng)不在了,或無法幫忙, 因?yàn)槿巳硕己ε乱咔椤?/p>

【9】You know, for far too long, Americans have always paid more for their childcare than they pay for their mortgage.

太長久以來,美國人花在 兒童照管上的錢都多于 花在抵押貸款上的錢。

【10】It is the largest cost center of families.

兒童照管是家庭最大的成本中心。

【11】And so when there were no kind of, available centers of care, women, who were already doing two thirds of the caretaking work, had to supplement basically, their paid labor for unpaid labor.

當(dāng)找不到托兒所時(shí), 本來就已經(jīng)在做 三分之二照顧工作的女性 基本上,除了有薪的勞務(wù) 之外也得做無薪的勞務(wù)。

【12】And you just, again, saw decades of progress just vanish overnight.

于是,再一次,又看到數(shù)十年的進(jìn)展 在一夕之間化為烏有。

【13】Now, some people thought, well, you know, once the country gets back up on its feet and we open things up, everything will be fine.

有些人會(huì)想,嗯, 等國家重新站起來并開放 之后,一切就會(huì)沒事了。

【14】Well, two years later, men have fully recovered all of their job losses.

嗯,兩年后, 男性在工作上的損失 都完全彌補(bǔ)回來了。

【15】Women are still missing.

女性卻仍然沒回來。

【16】And, you know, the latest labor statistics does not account for the amount of women who have downshifted their careers, who have said, "Oh, I'm working full time, I got to work part time now,"

最新的勞動(dòng)統(tǒng)計(jì) 并沒有計(jì)算到某些女性, 她們的職涯上得放慢腳步, 她們說:「喔,我在做全職, 我現(xiàn)在得去打工了?！?/p>

【17】because, again, half of daycare centers are still shut down.

因?yàn)?同樣的, 有一半的托兒所都關(guān)閉。

【18】Schools are still kind of inconsistent.

學(xué)校仍然不一致。

【19】We still have a broken structure of care.

我們的照管體制仍然很糟糕。

【20】And so for me, you know, Girls Who Code, I've been spending 10 years telling girls to like, barnstorm the corner office and lean in real hard and you know, girl-boss their way to the top.

所以,對(duì)我來說,「程式女孩」, 我這十年來一直告訴女孩 去老板辦公室宣傳自己, 全心投入,像個(gè)女性 表率一路向上爬。

【21】And so I bought in to that sentiment, well, if you just worked harder, if you just tried more, you got a mentor, a sponsor, or you learned how to color-code your calendar, like, we would get to equality.

我買帳相信這個(gè)說法, 如果你更努力, 如果你嘗試更多, 找個(gè)導(dǎo)師或贊助者, 或?qū)W習(xí)把日歷做顏色標(biāo)記, 我們就能實(shí)現(xiàn)平等。

【22】And the pandemic taught me that that was all a lie, that I had been focused, that we had been focused on the wrong thing, and that we actually have to stop trying to fix women and fix the structure.

而疫情教了我一件事:這全是謊言。 我一直把焦點(diǎn),我們一直把焦點(diǎn) 我們得停止再繼續(xù)去改正女性, 該改正的是結(jié)構(gòu)。

【23】And the structures that allow women to work and be a mother have always been broken.

讓女性能同時(shí)工作和扮演母親的結(jié)構(gòu) 一直都有問題。

【24】We've been the only industrialized nation that doesn't offer paid leave.

我們是唯一不提供 有薪假的工業(yè)化國家。

【25】We've built workplaces around a nine-to-five schedule when schools were open eight to three.

我們根據(jù)九點(diǎn)到五點(diǎn)的 時(shí)間表來建立工作場所, 學(xué)校上課時(shí)間卻是八點(diǎn)到三點(diǎn)。

【26】We've always been having to balance it all, i.e. having to do it all.

狀況一直都是必須要平衡所有的事, 也就是,要做所有的事。

【27】And so we were never going to get to equality until we started fixing the structure.

所以我們永遠(yuǎn)不會(huì)達(dá)到平等, 除非我們?nèi)ジ恼Y(jié)構(gòu)。

【28】And quite frankly, I think the abortion debate is part of that structural conversation.

且,坦白說,我認(rèn)為關(guān)于墮胎的辯論 也是對(duì)于結(jié)構(gòu)進(jìn)行談話的一部分。

【29】You don't give control over women's ...

你不能去控制女性的……

【30】you know, about their ability how and when to have a child, you take away their ability, quite frankly, to work on their terms.

她們的能力,如何生孩子 以及何時(shí)生孩子, 坦白說,你是奪走她們 照自己的意愿來工作的能力。

【31】Whitney Pennington Rodgers: What is the "Marshall Plan for Moms"

惠妮:「母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫」 是什么？

【32】and where are we right now with it?

目前進(jìn)度如何？

【33】RS: We need the government and the private sector, everybody, quite frankly, to re-imagine women in the workplace.

瑞許瑪:我們需要政府 及私部門,其實(shí)是所有人, 來重新構(gòu)想工作場所的女性。

【34】And so when I talk to moms about what it is that they needed, you know, to be able to, again, reconcile those two identities as the caretaker and as a worker, you know, I kind of heard the same thing.

當(dāng)我和母親們談 她們需要什么, 才能夠再次調(diào)解這兩個(gè)身分:照顧者 以及工作者。 我聽過類似的,并不是……

【35】And it wasn't not that "Wow."

并不是那種「哇」,

【36】Like, it was obvious.

好像很明顯似的。

【37】Moms said, you know, “I need paid leave.” We're, like I said, the only industrialized nation that doesn't offer paid leave.

母親說:「我需要有薪假。」 我剛才說過, 我們是唯一 不提供有薪假的工業(yè)化國家。

【38】Right?

對(duì)吧？

【39】Affordable childcare.

平價(jià)兒童照管,

【40】We don't have it in this country.

在我們國家里沒有。

【41】The average American gets about 500 dollars you know, in childcare benefits.

美國人平均可以得到大約 五百美金的兒童照管津貼。

【42】The average, in industrialized nation, parent gets 15,000.

在工業(yè)化國家,父母平均 可以得到一萬五千美金。

【43】So we are woefully under providing support for parents in this country.

很感傷的是,我們?cè)谶@個(gè)國家里提供給父母的支持很不足。

【44】School closures.

學(xué)校關(guān)閉。

【45】You know, I find that decision so interesting, I want somebody to do, like an investigative report, right?

我覺得那決策很有意思, 讓我想要找人來做一份調(diào)查報(bào)告。

【46】Because, you know, one of the interesting things in America is that we have these things called time and leave studies.

在美國,一件很有意思的事情就是 我們有所謂的時(shí)間與請(qǐng)假分析。

【47】So when the policy decision was made to close schools, we had enough time, enough data to say, well, who's doing the homeschooling?

當(dāng)決定要關(guān)閉學(xué)校的政策推出時(shí), 我們有足夠的時(shí)間、 足夠的資料,可以知道 誰要在家教孩子、

【48】Who is this going to affect?

這會(huì)影響到誰？

【49】What worker is this going to affect?

這會(huì)影響到哪些工作者？

【50】And so we knew, policymakers knew that the ramifications of school closures would dramatically affect women and it wouldn't touch, as it didn't, men's labor.

所以我們知道,政策制訂者知道, 關(guān)閉學(xué)校的延伸效應(yīng)會(huì) 且不會(huì)動(dòng)到男性的 勞務(wù),

【51】And they did it.

也的確如此。

【52】Now, other nations across the globe, the UK, other you know, they didn't close the schools.

政策還是推出了,而全球其他國家,英國和其他國家, 它們沒有關(guān)閉學(xué)校。

【53】They approached it from a different perspective, right?

它們從不同的觀點(diǎn)來處理。

【54】Or if they closed schools, they had a plan on what they were going to do to support women, to bring them back.

或者,如果它們要關(guān)閉學(xué)校, 也會(huì)有計(jì)畫, 規(guī)劃要怎么做才能 支持女性,讓她們能回來。

【55】And so, school closures were part of this Marshall Plan for Moms.

所以,學(xué)校關(guān)閉是 母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫的一部分。

【56】Retraining.

再教育。

【57】Many women found themselves in jobs that were automated because of the pandemic and jobs that weren't going to come back.

許多女性發(fā)現(xiàn)她們的工作 因?yàn)橐咔槎蛔詣?dòng)化了, 這些那些是回不來的。

【58】And so what was the plan to do retraining since we know again, so many women in this country are the breadwinners of their families.

所以,再教育的計(jì)畫是什么？ 因?yàn)槲覀冎?同樣的, 這個(gè)國家中有許多女性

【59】So when they lose their job, the entire family suffers.

若她們失業(yè)了,全家都會(huì)很辛苦。

【60】So that was the Marshall Plan for Moms.

那就是母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫。

【61】We put out a full page ad in "The New York Times"

我們?cè)凇都~約時(shí)報(bào)》打了全版廣告,

【62】to President Biden saying, "In your first 100 days, as you think about what you should focus on, focus on moms, focus on women."

對(duì)拜登總統(tǒng)喊話: 「在你的前一百天,當(dāng)你在思索 把焦點(diǎn)放在母親,放在女性上。」

【63】And, you know, that turned into a couple pieces of legislation.

結(jié)果是產(chǎn)生了幾條法規(guī),

【64】Now two years later, Whitney, we haven't passed the Marshall Plan for Moms.

而兩年后的現(xiàn)在,惠妮, 我們尚未通過母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫。

【65】And what I mean by that is we haven't passed any of the tenets.

我是指,我們尚未 通過任何教條原則。

【66】We haven't passed paid leave, we haven't passed affordable childcare, and we let the child tax credit expire.

我們尚未通過有薪假, 我們尚未通過平價(jià)兒童照管, 且子女稅額抵減也終止了。

【67】So we've bailed out airlines.

所以,我們幫航空公司擺脫了困境。

【68】But we haven’t bailed out moms.

但我們尚未幫母親擺脫困境。

【69】And, you know, for me as an activist, as a social entrepreneur, looking at this is devastating, because in many ways, you're waiting for Congress to grow a heart.

而我這個(gè)活動(dòng)主義者,社會(huì)企業(yè)家,光是看著這個(gè)狀況 就讓我心力交瘁。 因?yàn)樵谠S多層面上, 你是在等國會(huì)長出良心來。

【70】You know, if there was ever going to be a moment in the history of our country to pass paid leave, for us to see, wow, what would have happened?

如果在我們國家歷史上會(huì)有一個(gè)時(shí)刻 在我們有生之年 能看到有薪假被通過, 哇,那會(huì)是怎樣的？

【71】How many, few[er] millions of people would have died from COVID had they had paid leave, paid sick days?

因?yàn)樾鹿诜窝锥^世的人 會(huì)少幾百萬個(gè), 如果他們當(dāng)初能請(qǐng)有薪假,

【72】Had we approached this differently.

如果我們用不同的方法……

【73】If there was ever a moment for reflection for contemplation for courage, it was now.

如果說有任何時(shí)刻 是我們應(yīng)該要反省、沉思、 鼓起勇氣, 那就是現(xiàn)在。

【74】And we didn't see it from our elected officials.

我們?cè)诿襁x官員的身上沒看到這些。

【75】And the reality is, we can't leave millions of women behind.

而現(xiàn)實(shí)是,我們不能拋棄數(shù)百萬名女性。

【76】And so we've really, at Marshall Plan for Moms, turned to the private sector.

所以在母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫, 我們轉(zhuǎn)向了私部門。

【77】And I believe in the private sector.

而我相信私部門。

【78】You know, when I built Girls Who Code, all of the money we raised was from the private sector.

當(dāng)我創(chuàng)建程式女孩時(shí), 我們募到的錢全是來自私部門。

【79】And we ended up teaching half a million kids to code.

最后讓我們能教導(dǎo) 五十萬名孩子寫程式,

【80】So the private sector, when it gets its arms around a problem, can really innovate and can really help solve it.

所以,當(dāng)私部門 完全了解一個(gè)問題時(shí), 就真的能夠創(chuàng)新, 能夠協(xié)助解決,而我認(rèn)為

【81】And I think the opportunity we have here now, Whitney, is with the great resignation and the fact that there are so many open jobs, it has become a seller's market for employees.

我們現(xiàn)在擁有的機(jī)會(huì),惠妮, 就是大離職潮, 以及有許多開放工作的這個(gè)事實(shí), 這已經(jīng)變成是員工的賣方市場了。

【82】And so if there's ever been a moment to say, hey, we need to start providing childcare benefits and maybe even subsidizing people's childcare, that's the way we actually solve it.

如果說有什么時(shí)候要說,嘿, 我們得要開始提供兒童照管凈貼, 可能甚至要補(bǔ)助人民的兒童照管, 那就是我們真正解決 這個(gè)問題的方法。

【83】This is an economic problem, not a personal problem.

這是個(gè)經(jīng)濟(jì)問題,不是個(gè)人問題。

【84】The moment for that conversation is now.

現(xiàn)在就是該進(jìn)行談話的時(shí)候了。

【85】WPR: Reshma, we have a question here from a TED Member, they ask, "The pandemic has showed that women do an extra shift of work, most of the heavy lifting at home, and upon returning to work, playing the role of the emotional aunt in the workplace.

惠妮:瑞許瑪,我們這里有 一個(gè)來自 TED 會(huì)員的問題, 問的是「疫情讓我們看到 女性會(huì)要做額外的工作, 在家要做大部分搬重物的 勞務(wù),回到工作上時(shí), 扮演工作場所的情緒阿姨角色。

【86】What should allyship look like now in order to support women as we come out of the pandemic?"

現(xiàn)在漸漸脫離疫情,支持女性的 盟友關(guān)系應(yīng)該是什么樣子的？

【87】RS: Talk about unpaid labor.

瑞許瑪:說到無薪勞務(wù),

【88】You know, what about all the unpaid labor women do at work?

那女性在工作時(shí)做的無薪勞務(wù)呢？

【89】Who organizes the Christmas party or the Hanukkah party?

誰來安排圣誕節(jié)派對(duì)？或光明節(jié)派對(duì)？

【90】Or the book clubs or the speakers or the D and I sessions?

或讀書會(huì)？或講者？或多元共融課程？

【91】It’s always women, women of color, and we don’t get paid for that.

總是有色人種的女性來做,

【92】That's not part of our performance review, that's not part of our compensation package.

那些都不納入表現(xiàn)評(píng)鑒, 不納入補(bǔ)償方案。

【93】But we do it.

但我們得做,

【94】And quite frankly, when we don't do it, we're penalized.

且, 坦白說, 若我們不做,就會(huì)有所不利,

【95】I'll never forget, I was talking to a bunch of CIA agents, CIA agents, and one of them had just had a baby.

我印象很深 有次我和一些中情局干員談, 其中一人剛生了孩子。

【96】And she said, "You know, Reshma, that year, I did not organize the office Christmas party.

她說:「你知道嗎, 瑞許瑪, 那年我沒有安排辦公室的圣誕節(jié)派對(duì)。

【97】And that was also the year that I -- it was the only year -- I didn't get promoted.

也就只有那一年, 我沒有升遷。

【98】And I can't prove it, but I know it was because I didn't plan the Christmas party."

我無法證明, 但我知道原因是我沒有 規(guī)劃圣誕節(jié)派對(duì)。」

【99】So there's also this expectation when we don't do that unpaid labor at work, that we're not productive, that we're not committed.

所以,也會(huì)有一種預(yù)期, 若我們不去做那些無薪的勞務(wù), 我們就沒有生產(chǎn)力,不夠投入。

【100】You know, so I think really having a conversation about how we value that labor is critical.

因此,我認(rèn)為,真正去談我們要如何 重視這些勞務(wù)是非常重要的。

【101】WPR: One TED Member asks, “If it’s a buyer’s market for employees, what do you think women should ask for first from their employers when it comes to to better benefits?

惠妮:有位 TED 會(huì)員問 「如果這是員工的賣方市場, 你認(rèn)為,若要更好的福利, 女性應(yīng)該先向雇主要求什么？

【102】Is there one sticking thing that you think really we should be focusing on?"

有沒有一件很關(guān)鍵的事,是你認(rèn)為 我們應(yīng)該要著重的？」

【103】RS: So what is happening is, and I think especially in this movement about transparency in pay, I think has really started to really shift some of the gender gap.

瑞許瑪:現(xiàn)狀是, 我認(rèn)為特別是在這場 關(guān)于薪水透明化的運(yùn)動(dòng)中, 我認(rèn)為性別落差真的 開始有所改變了。

【104】And so women, I think, are going in and saying, you know, "I want to make more" or "How much are you paying him?"

所以,我認(rèn)為女性會(huì)跑來說 「我想要賺更多」 或「你付他多少錢？」

【105】And it's actually translating into higher earnings for them.

這就會(huì)轉(zhuǎn)變成她們更高的收入。

【106】So I think when it comes to moms, I think three things.

就母親來說,我會(huì)思考三點(diǎn)。

【107】So one of the things is we all have to get very clear about what the pay gap is about.

其中之一,是我們得要講清楚 薪資落差是怎么一回事。

【108】Now, the pay gap is not about gender, and it's not even about care work.

薪資落差與性別無關(guān), 與照顧工作無關(guān),

【109】It's about mothers.

重點(diǎn)是母親。

【110】The reason why there is a gender gap in pay is the pay gap between mothers and fathers.

薪資之所以會(huì)有性別落差的原因, 是因?yàn)槟赣H和父親之間的薪資落差。

【111】In fact, the largest pay gap exists between mothers and childless women.

事實(shí)上,最大的薪資落差存在于 母親和沒有孩子的女性之間。

【112】And so we have got to, once and for all, close the pay gap.

所以我們得要一勞永逸地 除去薪資落差。

【113】So, for example, if you leave the workforce to have a child or take a break or whatever it is, you lose on average 40 percent of your income.

舉例來說, 如果你離開勞動(dòng)力,去生孩子, 或休息一下,諸如此類, 你平均會(huì)失去 40% 的收入。

【114】The good news now is that there's algorithms and people that can come in and literally root out the motherhood penalty.

好消息是,現(xiàn)在有演算法了, 你可以直接去把母職懲罰給根除。

【115】So the number one thing is, is when you go in there and you ask, you want to know what he is making.

所以,第一件事是,你走進(jìn)去,你去問, 你想要知道他賺多少錢。

【116】You know what I mean, and you want to make the same or more.

你知道我的意思的, 且你想要賺一樣多或更多。

【117】I think the second thing is, is we have to start asking for our companies to pay for childcare benefits.

我認(rèn)為第二件事是我們得要開始 要求我們的公司支付兒童照管津貼。

【118】The reality is, the childcare business model is broken.

現(xiàn)實(shí)是,兒童照管的 商業(yè)模型有問題。

【119】You know, we don’t pay childcare -- we pay zookeepers more than we pay childcare workers.

我們付給動(dòng)物園管理員的錢 都比兒童照管人員的錢還多。

【120】And so they don't make enough.

他們賺的錢不夠。

【121】Now, that's why they're not coming back to work, and there's so many open childcare positions because the pay is not just, and so we have to figure out --

那就是為何他們不回來工作, 有好多兒童照管的職缺。 因?yàn)樾劫Y不公正, 所以,我們得想辦法——

【122】So the government was supposed to, by creating a ceiling on what you would pay in childcare expenses, was supposed to be able to help close that gap and help families offset the cost.

所以,政府應(yīng)該要, 藉由設(shè)定兒童照管收費(fèi)上限, 來協(xié)助減少那落差, 并協(xié)助家庭把那成本補(bǔ)回來。

【123】Now, the government, Congress has said sorry, not sorry, not passing the bill, right?

而政府、國會(huì)說,一點(diǎn)也不抱歉, 不通過法案。

【124】So the private sector is the only other institution that can come in here and fix the model.

所以,其他機(jī)構(gòu)團(tuán)體中, 也只有私部門可以 能夠介入并把模型改正。

【125】When the private sector starts saying, "OK, we are going to start offering childcare subsidies, backup care, emergency care, we're going to build daycare centers,

當(dāng)私部門開始說: 「好,我們會(huì)開始提供 兒童照管補(bǔ)助、 備援照管、緊急照管, 我們要成立日間照管中心,

【126】when they basically take responsibility for fixing the business model, what's going to happen is a lot of entrepreneurs are going to come into the space, and the market is going to become efficient.

當(dāng)他們從根本上扛起責(zé)任 會(huì)發(fā)生的狀況就是,有許多企業(yè)家 會(huì)進(jìn)入到這個(gè)空間來, 市場也會(huì)變得有效率。

【127】So this needs to happen.

所以這必須要實(shí)現(xiàn)。

【128】So I think it's very important for moms, women, allies, everybody to come in and say, "What are your childcare benefits?"

所以,我認(rèn)為,非常重要的是, 大家都要來說: 「你的兒童照管福利是什么？」

【129】We have a study coming out which will show, with McKinsey, probably next week, which will basically prove the case that this is the number one thing that parents want.

我們和麥肯錫合作了一項(xiàng)研究, 可能下周會(huì)公布, 基本上,它會(huì)證明 這是父母們

【130】And this will be a driver of who they work for and who they don't work for.

這會(huì)影響到他們要 為誰工作,或不為誰工作。

【131】So it makes business sense if you care about attrition, if you care about, again, the four million people that are leaving every month.

所以在商業(yè)上是合理的, 如果你在乎流失,如果你在乎, 再說一次,每個(gè)月有四百萬人離開。

【132】The way to retain them, the way to win that talent war is to provide childcare.

留住他們的方式, 就是提供兒童照管。

【133】WPR: There’s a question from TED Member Charlotte about a women’s general strike.

惠妮:TED 會(huì)員夏洛特 想要問女性的全面罷工。

【134】What do you think about that?

你有什么看法？

【135】RS: Oh, I love it, the Iceland strike, oh my God, yes.

瑞許瑪:喔,我很愛, 冰島罷工,天,是的,

【136】Because, listen, I think that what happened in Iceland essentially is women didn't go to work, they didn't get on a train, they didn't make breakfast for their partners and the entire country shut down.

因?yàn)?我認(rèn)為冰島 發(fā)生的狀況基本上是 女性沒有去上班,她們沒有上火車, 她們沒有為另一半做早餐, 整個(gè)國家就停止運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)了。

【137】And that year they passed a really progressive law on pay equity and they got more women in elective office.

那年,他們通過了一項(xiàng) 關(guān)于薪資平等的革新法案, 他們讓更多女性擔(dān)任選任職位。

【138】But it was an eye opener for people like, oh, wow, we really can't function, you know what I mean, without women's participation.

但大家真正開了眼界,發(fā)現(xiàn), 喔,原來我們會(huì)無法運(yùn)作, 我們不能沒有女性的參與。

【139】WPR: I'm curious what you think is the thing that will ultimately motivate us to actually make it happen.

惠妮:我很好奇,你認(rèn)為是什么 最終會(huì)驅(qū)使我們?nèi)?實(shí)現(xiàn)這些？

【140】What do you see as the thing that's going to make the tide finally change?

你認(rèn)為是什么最后能夠讓浪潮改變？

【141】RS: I think we have to build radically different systems.

瑞許瑪:我認(rèn)為我們得要 建立非常不一樣的體制。

【142】That's why I'm obsessed with the workplace, because I think the workplace is an example of how we have to resist going back to the old normal, because there’s actually alignment.

那就是為什么我很關(guān)注工作場所, 因?yàn)槲艺J(rèn)為,工作場所是個(gè)例子, 能說明我們?yōu)槭裁吹靡?抗拒回到過去的常態(tài), 因?yàn)?其實(shí)有校正。

【143】Nobody wants to go back to that old workplace.

沒有人想再回去以前的工作場所。

【144】Not men, not trans people, not, you know, nonbinary, not my people of color, like, nobody, that wasn't working for anybody.

男性不想,變性人不想, 非二元性別的人不想, 有色人種也不想,那種 工作場所對(duì)任何人都行不通。

【145】You know, that hustle culture, you know that idea that you give everything, you work 80 hours a week and you just like, fall apart, your mental health.

那種催趕的文化, 你要付出一切的那種觀念, 一周得工作八十小時(shí), 你的心理健康會(huì)整個(gè)被搞壞。

【146】I mean, we can't go back to that.

我們不能走上回頭路。

【147】You know, we can't go back to that.

我們不能走上回頭路。

【148】And so this is our first test.

這是我們的第一個(gè)考驗(yàn)。

【149】Are we up for building something new collectively, you know, that will serve all of us and will bring us to a place where I think we can all heal and have a little bit more time.

我們是否準(zhǔn)備好一起建造新氣象, 對(duì)大家都好,并能為所有人帶來療愈, 并有多一點(diǎn)點(diǎn)時(shí)間。

【150】You know, it's very hard to be empathetic and to be brave when you're exhausted.

要知道,當(dāng)你累壞的時(shí)候, 很難有同理心也很難勇敢。

【151】And I think people are really exhausted right now.

我認(rèn)為大家現(xiàn)在都累壞了。

【152】I think the second is, I do this, I think we’ve got to keep talking to people who don’t agree with us.

我認(rèn)為第二點(diǎn)是, 我們必須要持續(xù)和 不認(rèn)同我們的人對(duì)話。

【153】You know, my favorite audiences to talk about "Pay Up" are men.

你知道我最喜歡和什么人 談「加薪」嗎？男人。

【154】And people always say to me, "Well, how do you convince the men?"

大家總會(huì)問:「你怎么說服男人？」

【155】I'm like, no, the men are with me, with us.

我會(huì)說,不,男人和我, 和我們站在同一陣線。

【156】We think they're not, but they are.

我們以為不是,但其實(shí)是。

【157】And so it’s everyone’s perspective: "The reason why we don't have these things in this book is because of men."

這是大家的觀點(diǎn): 「我們之所以沒有這些, 都是因?yàn)槟腥??！?/p>

【158】No, it's not because of men.

不不不,不是因?yàn)槟腥恕?/p>

【159】You know what I mean, that's not the problem.

你懂我的意思的,那不是問題所在。

【160】It's because of the power and the way that we've traditionally created workplaces.

原因是權(quán)力, 以及我們傳統(tǒng)上 建立工作場所的方式。

【161】So you also then, when you talk to people who you think are not your allies or who you think may be against you, you sometimes are surprised.

所以當(dāng)你去跟你以為不是盟友的人, 或可能會(huì)反對(duì)你的人談?wù)? 有時(shí)可能會(huì)很驚訝。

【162】I mean, it's the same thing with Girls Who Code, it's like, 40 percent of my teachers are men.

程式女孩也是如此, 我們有 40% 的老師是男性。

【163】So that's how you build movements.

那就是創(chuàng)建運(yùn)動(dòng)的方式。

【164】And for me as a social entrepreneur building my second movement, you know, with Marshall Plan for Moms, that is a big lesson that I learned.

身為社會(huì)企業(yè)家,這是 我創(chuàng)建的第二個(gè)運(yùn)動(dòng), 母親復(fù)興計(jì)畫, 我從中學(xué)到很重要的一課,

【165】Is that you can't keep talking to the converted.

就是,你不能一直 和改變想法的人談,

【166】We've got to convert.

我們得改變想法。

【167】[Get access to thought-provoking events you won't want to miss.]

[參與發(fā)人深省的活動(dòng), 錯(cuò)過就太可惜了。]