正文翻譯

圖。

評(píng)論翻譯

Matt Riggsby
When you say “l(fā)ike Mesopotamia, Egypt, etc.”, I assume you mean a pristine civilization, one which arose spontaneously and without outside influence. It looks like there are a few conditions preconditioning the rise of civilization. Europe didn’t have those conditions at the time when civilizations were appearing nearby, and the expansion and influence of those civilizations made the question moot shortly thereafter.

當(dāng)你說(shuō)“像美索不達(dá)米亞、埃及等”時(shí)，我想你指的是一個(gè)原始的文明，一個(gè)自發(fā)產(chǎn)生的、沒(méi)有外部影響的文明?？雌饋?lái)有幾個(gè)條件可以為文明的崛起做準(zhǔn)備。當(dāng)文明在附近出現(xiàn)時(shí)，歐洲并不具備這些條件，而這些文明的擴(kuò)張和影響使這個(gè)問(wèn)題在不久之后變得毫無(wú)意義。

Civilization requires a large subsistence base. Civilizations have to support significant numbers of centrally located non-farmers, so there needs to be a significant agricultural surplus. At the time the first civilizations were arising in Egypt and Mesopotamia, Europe was in the process of switching from hunting and gathering to agriculture, so most places in Europe weren’t even remotely ready to support urban populations.

文明需要一個(gè)龐大的生存基礎(chǔ)。不同文明必須支持大量位于中心的非農(nóng)民，因此需要有大量的農(nóng)業(yè)盈余。當(dāng)埃及和美索不達(dá)米亞出現(xiàn)第一批文明時(shí)，歐洲正處于從狩獵和采集向農(nóng)業(yè)轉(zhuǎn)變的過(guò)程中，因此歐洲大多數(shù)地方甚至還沒(méi)有做好支持城市人口的準(zhǔn)備。

Another significant theme in early civilizations appears to be resources which it’s difficult for people to walk away from. In most cases (Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus, Peru; the early Yellow River civilization is a little iffy on this point), civilizations seem to rise in river valleys going through deserts. They’re great places to live with easy transport and fertile land, but they’re surrounded by hostile wasteland. This leads to denser populations because people can’t spread out easily to avoid conflict and do their own thing. People have to come up with some way of mediating conflicts and otherwise dealing with one another when they can’t just leave. They end up inventing government and civilization. Similar mechanisms involving capital investment may be in play as well (if you’ve spent years working on an irrigation network or grape vines, you’re likely to accept more complex society than abandoning it all), but the point is that civilizations tend to arise from situations where people would prefer to stay in situations of increasing social complexity and population density than strike out on their own. And Europe, which doesn’t have deserts keeping people in fertile river valleys and hadn’t developed large holdings of capital-intensive resources like vineyards and irrigation networks yet, wasn’t nudging people towards civilization at the time.

早期文明中的另一個(gè)重要主題似乎是資源，這些資源對(duì)人們來(lái)說(shuō)很難放棄。在大多數(shù)情況下（美索不達(dá)米亞、埃及、印度河流域、秘魯；早期的黃河文明在這一點(diǎn)上有些不確定），文明似乎在穿越沙漠的河谷中興起。這些地方是宜居的地方，交通便利，土地肥沃，但周?chē)际浅錆M敵意的荒地。這導(dǎo)致人口密集，因?yàn)槿藗儾荒茌p易地分散以避免沖突和做自己想做的事情。人們必須想出某種方法來(lái)調(diào)解沖突，否則彼此相處時(shí)。他們最終發(fā)明了政府和文明。類(lèi)似的機(jī)制也可能參與了資本投資方面（如果你花了數(shù)年時(shí)間修建灌溉系統(tǒng)或葡萄園，你會(huì)接受比放棄更復(fù)雜的社會(huì)），但重要的是，文明往往出現(xiàn)在人們寧愿留在日益增長(zhǎng)的社會(huì)復(fù)雜性和人口密度的情況下而不是獨(dú)立闖蕩的環(huán)境中。而當(dāng)時(shí)的歐洲沒(méi)有像沙漠那樣的地方讓人們待在肥沃的河谷中，并且尚未開(kāi)發(fā)出資本密集型資源，例如葡萄園和灌溉網(wǎng)絡(luò)，因此并未激勵(lì)人們走向文明。

Now, you may have noticed that I keep saying things like “at the time” or “when civilization was arising in Egypt and Mesopotamia.” That’s another significant issue for a potential pristine European civilization. Left to its own devices, could Europe have built its own completely native civilization? Perhaps. It is no accident that the first urban society in Europe arose not just where Europe had the most sophisticated technology, but also where it was in direct contact with not one but two other civilizations. Contact with Egypt across the Mediterranean and the Mesopotamian cultural sphere in next-door southwestern Asia kickstarted European civilization, which combined elements of both with its own native cultures. Civilization came in from the outside before it could start inside.

你可能已經(jīng)注意到了，我一直在說(shuō)“當(dāng)時(shí)”或“當(dāng)文明在埃及和美索不達(dá)米亞興起時(shí)”。這是潛在的原始?xì)W洲文明的另一個(gè)重要問(wèn)題。如果讓它自行發(fā)展，歐洲能否建立自己完全本土的文明？也許可以。歐洲第一個(gè)城市化社會(huì)的出現(xiàn)并不僅僅是因?yàn)闅W洲擁有最先進(jìn)的技術(shù)，而且還因?yàn)樗c不只一個(gè)文明直接接觸。通過(guò)地中海與埃及的聯(lián)系以及毗鄰西南亞的美索不達(dá)米亞文化圈的聯(lián)系，啟動(dòng)了歐洲文明，該文明將兩者的元素與其本土文化相結(jié)合。文明在其內(nèi)部開(kāi)始之前就已經(jīng)從外部進(jìn)入。

Suzanne Marie Redalia Sullivan
Early European civilizations were not exactly like Mesopotamia or Egypt, but the Vinca culture of Eastern and Central Europe (5th and 6th millennium BC) appears to have had a writing system, similar to that of the Dispilio tablet, (5202 BC, Macedonia) and the Vinca culture developed into the Cucuteni culture, with writing similar to Byblos scxt, and agriculture, animal care, ceramics, stylized statues like those of the ancient Cyclades islands, woven textiles. In Varna, Bulgaria, a graveyard was found, dating from 4600–4100 BC, full of gold obxts amassed by people who had established a weapons trade network that stretched all the way to Spain. These people at Varna were also cattle breeders and some of the gold artifacts in the graves were buttons shaped like cattle. Another remark about the Cucuteni culture, some really large towns were built in their time, towns which held thousands of people. So if civilizations were just beginning in Eastern and Southern Europe during the Neolithic, what is known about Mesopotamia and Egypt during the Neolithic? Their civilizations were also just beginning then.

早期的歐洲文明并不完全像美索不達(dá)米亞或埃及，但東歐和中歐的文卡文化（公元前5和6千年）似乎有一個(gè)書(shū)寫(xiě)系統(tǒng)，類(lèi)似于Dispilio碑（公元前5202年，馬其頓），文卡文化發(fā)展為庫(kù)庫(kù)特尼文化，有類(lèi)似于比布魯斯文字的書(shū)寫(xiě)，以及農(nóng)業(yè)、動(dòng)物護(hù)理、陶瓷、像古代基克拉迪群島的風(fēng)格化雕像、編織的紡織品。在保加利亞的瓦爾納，發(fā)現(xiàn)了一個(gè)墓地，時(shí)間為公元前4600-4100年，里面堆滿了黃金制品，這些人建立了一個(gè)武器貿(mào)易網(wǎng)絡(luò)，一直延伸到西班牙。瓦爾納的這些人也是養(yǎng)牛的人，墓穴中的一些金器是牛的形狀的紐扣。關(guān)于庫(kù)庫(kù)特尼文化的另一個(gè)說(shuō)法是，在他們的時(shí)代，一些真正的大城鎮(zhèn)被建造出來(lái)，這些城鎮(zhèn)可以容納成千上萬(wàn)的人。因此，如果新石器時(shí)代東歐和南歐的文明剛剛開(kāi)始，那么新石器時(shí)代美索不達(dá)米亞和埃及的情況又如何呢？他們的文明在那時(shí)也是剛剛開(kāi)始。

I think we should not overlook the Hittites, their civilization was contemporary with that of Egypt and Mesopotamia, but they lived in what is now eastern Turkey, which is part of Europe. The oldest buildings in Europe, carved with bas relief art of lions, scorpions, bulls, ducks and wild boar, are at Gobekli Tepe, Turkey, and are 11,500 years old. The people of Gobekli Tepe, too, could read and write. Stamp seals with writing similar to Proto-Canaanitic were found there.

我認(rèn)為我們不應(yīng)該忽略赫梯人，他們的文明與埃及和美索不達(dá)米亞同時(shí)代，但他們居住在現(xiàn)在的土耳其東部，那里是歐洲的一部分。歐洲最古老的建筑是在土耳其的戈比克利特佩，用浮雕藝術(shù)雕刻了獅子、蝎子、公牛、鴨子和野豬，有1.15萬(wàn)年歷史。戈比克利特佩的人們也可以讀寫(xiě)。那里發(fā)現(xiàn)了類(lèi)似于原始迦南文字的印章。

Southern European ancient civilizations included the Minoans, who had a king, palaces, writing, trade, monuments, agriculture, and so forth. Similar cultures existed in pre-Roman Italy, which was occupied not just by Italian tribes, but also by Phoenicians in the south, Etruscans in the northwest, and Italo-Celts in the northeast.

南歐古代文明包括米諾斯人，他們有國(guó)王、宮殿、文字、貿(mào)易、紀(jì)念碑、農(nóng)業(yè)等等。前羅馬時(shí)代的意大利也存在類(lèi)似的文化，不僅被意大利部落占領(lǐng)，南部的腓尼基人、西北部的伊特魯里亞人和東北部的伊塔洛凱爾特人也占領(lǐng)了意大利。

Dinu Bogdan Marius
Maybe the correct answer is the Europe have had this kind of civilizations but the research work related isn’t yet completed.Recently (in 2017) the ruin of an very old town was discovered in Romania (Turdas area).Seems that is the oldest town in the SE Europe (dated 4200 BC with almost 2000 y before Egyptian pyramids). The surface of the town was estimated at 100 ha (means that is larger then Troy was) . The problem is that this huge area request too much money to made a full archaeologically work…

也許正確的答案是歐洲曾經(jīng)有這種文明，但相關(guān)的研究工作尚未完成。最近（2017年）在羅馬尼亞的圖爾達(dá)斯地區(qū)發(fā)現(xiàn)了一座非常古老的城鎮(zhèn)遺址。似乎這是東南歐的最古老城鎮(zhèn)（公元前4200年，比埃及金字塔早了將近2000年）。該城鎮(zhèn)的面積估計(jì)為100公頃（比特洛伊還大）。問(wèn)題是，這個(gè)巨大的區(qū)域需要花費(fèi)太多錢(qián)來(lái)進(jìn)行全面的考古工作......

From another point of view the place where ‘Tartaria’ tablets was find (the tablets are considered as the first form of writing ) is situated into the same region and the dates seems to be in sync from the same period.

從另一個(gè)角度來(lái)看，“塔爾塔里亞” 石板的發(fā)現(xiàn)地（這些石板被認(rèn)為是第一種書(shū)寫(xiě)形式）位于同一地區(qū)，而且日期似乎與同一時(shí)期相符。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.ltaaa.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

However without a strong research work is difficult to have a correct picture about what it was Europe., from civilizations perspective with more than 5 or 6 millennial’s ago.Basically any new discovery must be cheeked ,reviewed and reassessed . Based on this reuation the conclusions can be very different in comparison with what we know today about old Europe.

然而，如果沒(méi)有強(qiáng)有力的研究工作，很難對(duì)歐洲有一個(gè)正確的了解。，從文明的角度來(lái)看，超過(guò)5或6個(gè)千年前?；旧希魏涡掳l(fā)現(xiàn)都必須受到重視、審查和重新評(píng)估?；谶@種重新評(píng)估，與我們今天對(duì)舊歐洲的了解相比，結(jié)論可能會(huì)大不相同。