正文翻譯
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.ltaaa.com 翻譯：碧波蕩漾恒河水 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

As of this morning, Pakistan is reporting that it has shot down Indian fighter jets operating over Pakistan. It looks like the specific types shot down were Mig-21s. This is surprising to me, given that the airfrx is over 50 years old. Unlike, say, the USAF and the B-52, it seems like India has plenty of other planes that can fulfill the same role as the Mig 21 - it has Mirage 2000s, Su-30s, Mig-29s, and more. So why was it using Mig 21s for active combat operations?

今天早上，巴基斯坦報(bào)道稱擊落了在巴基斯坦上空飛行的印度戰(zhàn)機(jī)?？雌饋肀粨袈涞氖敲赘?21。這讓我很驚訝，因?yàn)檫@種飛機(jī)的機(jī)齡已經(jīng)超過50年了。雖然不如美國空軍和B-52，印度似乎有很多其他飛機(jī)可以發(fā)揮與米格21同樣的作用——它有幻影2000、蘇-30、米格29等等。那么為什么要用米格21來執(zhí)行主動(dòng)作戰(zhàn)任務(wù)呢？

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原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.ltaaa.com 翻譯：碧波蕩漾恒河水 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

WIlf_Brim
A good question, though. This is their most active and most contested front: I would have thought that they would use the Mig-29 in Kashmir, and put the less capable airfrxs in the East where the threat is less.

不錯(cuò)的問題。這是他們最活躍、戰(zhàn)斗最激烈的前線：我原以為他們會(huì)在克什米爾使用米格-29，而把能力較差的機(jī)身放在威脅較小的東部。

Diestormlie
The reason I could think is that, given the risk of them being shot down, they used less capable airfrxs so, if they were shot down, they''d have lost less.

我能想到的原因是，考慮到他們被擊落的風(fēng)險(xiǎn)，他們使用了性能較差的飛機(jī)，所以如果被擊落，損失會(huì)比較少。

KilrBe3
That point why risk even an airworthy air frx? They have drones, but I think they are all SIGNIT and Recce. This is where a standoff missile would come in great hands here. Even throwing away a an aging airfrx to me is stupid. If it flies, and carry drop a payload, its still worthy... This is how a side loses by thinking like this... Oh its old, chuck it away. Looking at you Syria AF.
Guess in this case though, you use what ya got.

那讓一架性能良好的飛機(jī)冒險(xiǎn)有什么意義呢？他們有無人機(jī)，我認(rèn)為都可以用于偵查。在這種情況下，從防區(qū)外發(fā)射一枚導(dǎo)彈就能取得優(yōu)勢(shì)。我覺得丟掉一架老舊的飛機(jī)根本就是愚蠢的做法。如果它能飛，并且能投擲載荷，它就依然是有價(jià)值的……如果哪一方這樣想就輸定了：“哦，這架飛機(jī)太舊了，丟掉好了。”敘利亞空軍都沒有這樣呢。
但是在這種情況下，手上有什么就用什么。

Diestormlie
You fight with the equipment you have, not with the equipment you wish you had.
Of course, they may have wanted Pakistan to shoot them down, if they''re looking to escalate.

打仗時(shí)，手頭有什么裝備就用什么，理想的裝備不一定在手頭上。
當(dāng)然，如果他們想讓事情升級(jí)的話，他們或許會(huì)故意讓巴基斯坦把這些飛機(jī)擊落。

Wireless-Wizard
That kind of conjecture is outside the scope of this sub.

這種推測超出了討論范圍。

Diestormlie
My mistake.

我的錯(cuò)。

vzenov
First of all India has twice as many MiG-21s as MiG-29s and had even more in the past which means that more aircraft will be ready for combat. The fighting took place over some time so multiple sorties would be made.
Also when the attack was made a much greater number of aircraft was put in the air to draw attention and confuse Pakistani Air Force. If you want to draw enemy forces away from the region you want to attack you want to signal as many threatening assets as you can in another area. Possibly MiG-29s would be used somewhere else.
Contrary to what you might think upgraded MiG-21 Bison is in many aspects as good or even better than MiG-29 in Indian service. For example the EW system gives it an advantage over MiG-29 which uses standard systems.

首先，印度的米格-21數(shù)量是米格-29的兩倍，過去甚至更多，這意味著做好戰(zhàn)斗準(zhǔn)備的米格-21會(huì)更多。戰(zhàn)斗持續(xù)了一段時(shí)間，所以出動(dòng)了多批次的飛機(jī)。
當(dāng)襲擊發(fā)生時(shí)，為了吸引巴基斯坦空軍的注意力并加以迷惑，印度把更多的飛機(jī)投放到空中。如果想要把敵人從他們想要攻擊的地區(qū)引開，他們會(huì)在另一個(gè)地區(qū)發(fā)出盡可能多的威脅信號(hào)。米格-29可能會(huì)被用在其他地方。
與你所想的相反，升級(jí)后的米格-21野牛在許多方面都比米格-29更好。例如，它的電子戰(zhàn)系統(tǒng)比使用標(biāo)準(zhǔn)系統(tǒng)的米格-29更有優(yōu)勢(shì)。

barath_s
Mig 21s are short range point defence interceptors, so you use them near the border.
Sukhois have longer legs and can be hosted in other places.
This Mig 21 flew from Srinagar AFB,Kashmir.

米格21是短程點(diǎn)防御攔截機(jī)，所以可以用在邊境附近。
蘇霍伊的腿比較長，可以駐扎在其他地方。
這架米格-21是從克什米爾的斯利那加空軍基地起飛的。

DegnarOskold
The Mig-21 was always a very good airplane and the Mig-21 Bison variant that India flies has heavily upgraded electronics to bring it up to modern standards.
The Mig-21 is still a high-performance plane with comparable speed, climbing and maneuvering capability to many more modern jets.

米格-21一直是一架非常好的飛機(jī)，印度使用的米格-21野牛型已經(jīng)大幅升級(jí)電子設(shè)備，達(dá)到了現(xiàn)代標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。
米格-21仍然是一種高性能飛機(jī)，其速度、爬升和機(jī)動(dòng)能力與許多現(xiàn)代噴氣式飛機(jī)相當(dāng)。

SirWinstonC
that India flies has heavily upgraded electronics to bring it up to modern standards.
an overstatement, especially the modern standards

夸大其詞，尤其是與“現(xiàn)代標(biāo)準(zhǔn)”相比。

Bernard_Woolley
The upgrade contract was signed in 1994. It was quite modern for its time.

升級(jí)合同于1994年簽訂。它在當(dāng)時(shí)是相當(dāng)“現(xiàn)代”的。

SirWinstonC
Year (time) is literally the worst indicator of tech modernity for military
Soviets put in mig29 and su27 into service in the late 80s
Claimed it’s avionics suit had the same performance as f-15 and f-16 (planes put into service in early 70s)
But the level of technology it utilized was similar to that of f-4 phantom II - from the 60s (re: avionics)
Timeline of service entry literally has no implication for actual modernity, depends on who is making it (among other things)

年代（時(shí)間）實(shí)際上是軍事技術(shù)現(xiàn)代化最糟糕的指標(biāo)。
蘇聯(lián)的米格29和蘇27于上世紀(jì)80年代末服役。
當(dāng)時(shí)聲稱它們的航電套裝具備F-15和F-16（它們是70年代早期服役的）相同的性能。
但它采用（的航電設(shè)備）的技術(shù)水平類似于F-4幽靈II。
實(shí)際上，服役時(shí)間并不代表是否現(xiàn)代化，這要看是誰制造的（以及其他方面）。

lordderplythethird
MiG-21BIS are a cheap and modern enough fighter in India''s eyes, though they''re slowly being phased out for Tejas fighters.
To be fair though, roughly half of the Pakistan Air Force is comprised of J-7s and Mirage IIIs, which are more or less direct comparables to the MiG-21 (in the case of the J-7, a literal copy of it). As long as Pakistan is still heavily reliant on them for the base of their fighter fleet, there''s no immediate need in India to retire and replace them.
Honestly, I would suspect the IAF has more of their modern fighters pointed towards China rather than Pakistan, given China''s rapid modernization vs Pakistan''s inability to modernize.

米格- 21野牛在印度看來是一款足夠便宜和現(xiàn)代化的戰(zhàn)機(jī)，盡管它們正慢慢被光輝戰(zhàn)機(jī)淘汰。
公平地說，大約一半的巴基斯坦空軍是由J-7和幻影III組成的，它們或多或少與米格-21有直接的可比性(至于J-7，它是米格-21的一種山寨版)。只要巴基斯坦仍然嚴(yán)重依賴這些戰(zhàn)機(jī)，將其作為其戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)編隊(duì)的基礎(chǔ)，印度就不需要立即讓米格21退休并換掉它們。
老實(shí)說，我懷疑印度空軍把他們更多的現(xiàn)代戰(zhàn)機(jī)瞄準(zhǔn)中國，而不是巴基斯坦，因?yàn)橹袊谘杆賹?shí)現(xiàn)現(xiàn)代化，而巴基斯坦則無力實(shí)現(xiàn)。

Bernard_Woolley
Honestly, I would suspect the IAF has more of their modern fighters pointed towards China rather than Pakistan
The IAF currently has two Mirage-2000 squadrons stationed at Gwalior in central India, and several squadrons of Su-30MKIs facing Pakistan. Bhatinda, Halwara, Jodhpur, and Bhuj currently house MKI squadrons.

印度空軍目前有兩個(gè)幻影2000中隊(duì)駐扎在印度中部的瓜廖爾，還有幾個(gè)蘇-30mki中隊(duì)面向巴基斯坦。珀丁達(dá)、海瓦拉、焦特布爾和普杰目前駐扎著MKI中隊(duì)。

Commisar
The Tejas has been an absolute disaster and won''t being to actually replace the Mig-21 until 2025

光輝戰(zhàn)機(jī)絕對(duì)是一場災(zāi)難，在2025年前不可能真正取代米格21。

generalissimo_jones
Plus India has a serious numerical advantage in both military hardware and population against Pakistan. It''s not like they can''t replace pilots and planes if they had too.

另外，印度在軍事裝備和人口上都比巴基斯坦有很大的優(yōu)勢(shì)。并不是說他們不能換掉飛行員和飛機(jī)——如果他們必須這樣做的話。

PanzerKommander
There are two major reasons, that I see:
MiG 21''s are still very capable ground attack aircraft, they are also much cheaper and easier to replace than the other aircraft (they were flying into an area where the enemy has acceptable Air Defense so there was a chance that anything would be lost).
The MiG 21 isn''t much slower or less maneuverable than the planes you listed (they were designed and built only 20 years after the MiG 21). The biggest disadvantage a MiG 21 had was it''s lack of room for electronics/radar/etc because of its small frx (it was made when the Soviet Air Defense Doctrine relied on ground based controller to guide the plane to it''s targets). But with new upgrade packages using modern miniaturized components those weaknesses are much less pronounced.
TL;DR: The MiG 21 works just fine today as long as you''re not planning on fighting the USA, Russia, China, or EU.

我認(rèn)為有兩個(gè)主要原因:
米格21仍然是非常有能力的地面攻擊機(jī)，它們也比其他飛機(jī)更便宜，更容易更換(敵人在它們飛往的那個(gè)地區(qū)部署了說得過去的防空力量，所以任何飛機(jī)都有可能損失掉)。
米格21并不比你列出的那些飛機(jī)慢多少，機(jī)動(dòng)性也不差多少(它們的設(shè)計(jì)和制造比米格21晚了20年)。米格21最大的缺點(diǎn)是由于它的機(jī)身小(當(dāng)時(shí)蘇聯(lián)的防空理論是由地面控制來引導(dǎo)飛機(jī)飛往目標(biāo)，它就是那時(shí)候制造的)，而缺乏容納電子/雷達(dá)/等裝備的空間。但隨著使用現(xiàn)代微型化組件的新升級(jí)包的出現(xiàn)，這些弱點(diǎn)就不那么明顯了。
只要不是打算對(duì)抗美國、俄羅斯、中國或歐盟，米格21在今天還是可以正常工作的。

DhulKarnain
Hell, if you''re planning on fighting the EU, you could very well come up against the MiG-21 (still operational in Romania and Croatia).

該死，如果有人計(jì)劃與歐盟作戰(zhàn)，也會(huì)遭遇到米格21（它們依然在羅馬尼亞和克羅地亞服役）。

PanzerKommander
True, but I''d be more worried about German or French planes

沒錯(cuò)，但我更擔(dān)心德國或法國的飛機(jī)。

DhulKarnain
Sure, but I''ve read an interview with an F-15 pilot on Hushkit and he was wary of dismissing the MiG-21 as a threat even against the ultimate air superiority fighter such as the F-15C.
"These days potential enemy fighters are as large or larger than the F-16, and perhaps size isn’t the issue it once was. In my day the primary threat we trained against was the MiG-21. He could see us at a distance of ten or more miles; we couldn’t see him until five miles or less, and that could make all the difference in who gets to the merge unobserved with a huge initial advantage.”
and
"If MiG-21s were half as good as F-5s, we’d have had our hands full had the Warsaw Pact ever moved on NATO."
I''d say that upgraded late MiG-21 models like the Indian Bison, the Romanian Lancer or various other Israeli upgraded MiG-21s, surpass anything the F-5 could ever do.

當(dāng)然，我讀到過一篇對(duì)Hushkit的一名F-15飛行員所做的采訪，他對(duì)不把米格21當(dāng)做威脅的說法持謹(jǐn)慎態(tài)度，即使對(duì)于F-15C這樣的終極空中優(yōu)勢(shì)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)也是如此。
“現(xiàn)在潛在敵人的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)都與F-16一樣大，或者更大，而且也許飛機(jī)的大小不再像以前那樣是個(gè)問題。在我的時(shí)代，我們訓(xùn)練的主要威脅是米格-21。它可以在十英里或更遠(yuǎn)的地方看到我們；而我們必須在五英里或更短的距離內(nèi)才能看到它，而哪一方能夠不被發(fā)現(xiàn)的進(jìn)入交戰(zhàn)，從中獲得巨大的初始優(yōu)勢(shì)，就可能改變一切?！?br/>
PanzerKommander
True, and I wasn''t dismissing them either, but the day of the dog fight is long gone. Today you don''t see your enemy with your eyes, you do with your electronics.
Which probably makes the 21 even more comparable to newer planes...

確實(shí)，我也不否認(rèn)這種威脅，但狗斗的時(shí)代早已過去。今天飛行員不會(huì)用肉眼看到敵人，而是用航電設(shè)備。
這可能使米格21面對(duì)新機(jī)型時(shí)更有可比性……

tubbyttub9
I''m sure if a Japanese, Israeli or American F-15c pilot was ask if they''d rather a MiG-21 for combat I''m pretty sure I know what the answer would be.

我敢肯定，如果去問日本、以色列或者美國的F-15c飛行員，他們是否愿意駕駛MiG-21作戰(zhàn)，我很肯定他們的回答是什么。

mbrasher1
Indian AF purchased a large number of Mig 21s. It was THE workhorse for decades, including during when current senior officers were flying. Over 500 pilots have been killed from Mig21 crashes.
The why is a combination of budgets and inertia. The Indian AF would like more modern airfrxs but money is always tight. They seem to be taking the approach of letting attrition take its toll. Just a bit less than 1000 were purchased or built under license; over half have crashed. The pilots call it the widow maker or flying coffin.

印度空軍購買了大量的米格21。這曾是他們幾十年來的主力，包括在現(xiàn)任高級(jí)官員飛行期間。有超過500名飛行員在米格21墜毀事件中喪生。
預(yù)算和慣性共同導(dǎo)致了現(xiàn)在這種情況。印度空軍希望得到更多現(xiàn)代化飛機(jī)，但他們的錢包總是很緊張。他們似乎采用了放任自然消耗的做法。他們采購或者根據(jù)許可建造了差不多1000架這種飛機(jī)；然而超過一半已經(jīng)墜毀了。所以飛行員們稱之為寡婦制造者或者飛行棺材。