CNN記者下狠手懟中國(guó)學(xué)者！復(fù)旦教授張維為一句話(huà)回?fù)簦剩?/h1>
導(dǎo)讀
“亞洲多數(shù)國(guó)家都復(fù)制了西方模式，你憑什么認(rèn)為西方模式在中國(guó)就行不通？”面對(duì)美國(guó)有線(xiàn)電視新聞網(wǎng)（CNN）主持人扎卡里亞的犀利提問(wèn)，復(fù)旦大學(xué)教授張維為用一句話(huà)，說(shuō)出中國(guó)人制度自信的底氣：“因?yàn)檫^(guò)去幾十年來(lái)，中國(guó)發(fā)展得比其他亞洲國(guó)家加起來(lái)都要好！”
在第九期“新時(shí)代大講堂”上，張維為發(fā)表重磅演講，分享中國(guó)的制度優(yōu)勢(shì)將如何賦能粵港澳大灣區(qū)。
張維為?
“新時(shí)代大講堂”
英文主旨演講
《中國(guó)的制度優(yōu)勢(shì)是大灣區(qū)發(fā)展的巨大動(dòng)能》
（略有刪節(jié)，中文為譯文）
我三年前和CNN主持人扎卡里亞會(huì)面時(shí)，他問(wèn)了我一個(gè)很尖銳的問(wèn)題。他說(shuō)，張教授，你總說(shuō)西方模式在中國(guó)行不通。但是你看亞洲，幾乎所有其他亞洲國(guó)家，都采用了西方政治模式，為什么？
In a meeting with Mr. Zakaria, CNN host, about three years ago, he asked me a very sharp question: Professor Zhang, you?said repeatedly, the Western model is not working for China.?Yet look at Asia, virtually all other Asian countries have adopted the Western political model. Why?
我說(shuō)，我的答案并不復(fù)雜。我的答案很簡(jiǎn)單。
I said, actually, the answer isn't that complicated. My answer is very simple.
只因?yàn)橹袊?guó)在過(guò)去的二十年、三十年甚至四十年間，發(fā)展得比其他亞洲國(guó)家加起來(lái)都好。
Simply?because China has performed better than all other Asian countries combined over?the past two decades, three decades or even four decades.
更重要的是，中國(guó)讓8.15億人擺脫了貧困。
And what's more important is China has lifted 815 million people out of poverty.
中國(guó)創(chuàng)造了世界上最大的中產(chǎn)階層，有四億人。
China?has created the world's largest middle class, 400 million people.
哪國(guó)人權(quán)狀況好？當(dāng)然是中國(guó)！
同樣，你關(guān)注整體民意的話(huà)，絕大部分中國(guó)人認(rèn)為中國(guó)走在正確的道路上。
And again, you look at overall opinion, most people think in China, their country is on the right track.
比如益普索的民調(diào)顯示，去年有90%的人這樣認(rèn)為。今年，我今早看到的數(shù)據(jù)是91%。
If we look at the opinion survey conducted by Ipsos, for instance, last year it was 90 percent; this year, I checked this morning, it's 91 percent.
作為對(duì)比，英國(guó)的民意調(diào)查顯示，21%的人認(rèn)為他們的國(guó)家在朝正確方向前進(jìn)。可能主要因?yàn)槊摎W。在法國(guó)這個(gè)數(shù)據(jù)是20%。
As a comparison, if you look at the opinion survey for the UK, 21 percent think their country is on the right track. Mainly because of Brexit, maybe. In France, 20 percent.
有時(shí)跟歐洲的朋友開(kāi)玩笑。我說(shuō)，你們總說(shuō)人權(quán)，別鬧了。哪國(guó)的人權(quán)狀況更好？當(dāng)然是中國(guó)了。
So sometimes I ridiculed my European friends. I said, my goodness, you talk about human rights, come on. Which country has a better human rights situation? Of?course China.
地廣人多，中國(guó)的崛起獨(dú)一無(wú)二
在2G時(shí)代，中國(guó)沒(méi)有自己的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。我們用的是歐洲和美國(guó)的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，在3G時(shí)代，中國(guó)開(kāi)始擁有自己的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。在4G時(shí)代 ?我們采用的是自己的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)?，F(xiàn)在中國(guó)已成為5G標(biāo)準(zhǔn)的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。
At the level of 2G, China did not have its own standard. We use European standard, American standard. At the level of 3G, China began to have its own standard. At the level of 4G, we use our own standard. Now China is a leader in 5G standard.
中國(guó)從遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)落后于人，到逐漸接近，再趕上甚至引領(lǐng)。這就是一個(gè)典型的例子。
So?it's a typical example for how from away behind to gradually moving up and then catching?up and even surpassing.
現(xiàn)在中美兩國(guó)，在第四次工業(yè)革命中處于前列。只有這兩個(gè)國(guó)家，無(wú)論是人工智能、大數(shù)據(jù)、量子科技等等領(lǐng)域，都處于世界前列。
Now China and the United States are in the?premier league of the fourth industrial revolution. They are the only two countries there. Whether in terms of AI, big data, quantum technology... the?list goes on.
我認(rèn)為這歸功于中國(guó)的國(guó)家本性。我覺(jué)得很多人其實(shí)沒(méi)有真正理解。
And?behind this is what I call the nature of the Chinese state. I don't think many people really understand this.
我認(rèn)為中國(guó)是一個(gè)與眾不同的國(guó)家。我把中國(guó)稱(chēng)為文明型國(guó)家。這是什么意思呢？在中國(guó)悠久的歷史中，多個(gè)民族最后融合成為一個(gè)國(guó)家。
I?think China is different type of state. I call China a Civilizational State.?What does it mean? It means it's an?amalgamation of hundreds of states into one over?its long history.
中國(guó)人口龐大。歐洲國(guó)家平均有一千四百萬(wàn)人口，中國(guó)的人口數(shù)是它的一百倍。
Super large population. In Europe, a country on average has 14?million people.?China is size of 100 average European?states together.?
中國(guó)疆域遼闊，幾乎等于一個(gè)大洲。有悠久的傳統(tǒng)，沿襲數(shù)千年。無(wú)論好壞，這是事實(shí)。
Super vast territory,?it's a continent. Super long traditions, everything goes back thousands of years. Good or bad, it's fact.
所以這令中國(guó)和中國(guó)的崛起與眾不同，獨(dú)一無(wú)二。
So?that makes the?Chinese case and the rise of China very different and very unique.
在政治領(lǐng)域，是選拔加選舉的制度。西方模式是選舉。哪個(gè)模式更好？中國(guó)模式。
In the political domain, it's called selection plus election, if the Western model is about election.?Which model is better? The China model is better.
在經(jīng)濟(jì)領(lǐng)域，我稱(chēng)之為混合經(jīng)濟(jì)。國(guó)家和市場(chǎng)都發(fā)揮作用，互為補(bǔ)充。有時(shí)兩者之間會(huì)產(chǎn)生矛盾，但在中央政府層面，會(huì)努力讓它們互為補(bǔ)充。
And in the economic domain, I call it a mixed economy. The rule of the state and the rule of the market - they complement each other. Sometimes they do have problems within each other yet at the level?of central government, they try very hard to make them complement each other.
無(wú)論中國(guó)模式有什么問(wèn)題，只有中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)模式讓中國(guó)免受經(jīng)濟(jì)危機(jī)。我們沒(méi)有遭受過(guò)任何金融危機(jī)、經(jīng)濟(jì)危機(jī)。
Whatever problems the China model has, the Chinese economic model is the only one that saved?China from financial crisis. We haven't experienced any financial crisis or whatever economic crisis.
在社會(huì)領(lǐng)域，國(guó)家和社會(huì)有機(jī)地互動(dòng)。
And then in?the social domain, the state and society are engaged in positive interactions.
不理解中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨，就理解不了中國(guó)
你要理解中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨。西方媒體會(huì)把中國(guó)稱(chēng)作“共產(chǎn)主義國(guó)家”。非常負(fù)面，但你要了解中國(guó)。中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨對(duì)中國(guó)來(lái)說(shuō)是一種決定性的積極力量。
You?have to understand the?Chinese Communist Party. In the West, the media would?portray China as Communist C capital letter,?state,?and that's very negative,?but you have to understand China. The?Chinese Communist Party is the overwhelmingly positive force for China.
這在中國(guó)是常識(shí)。如果你不理解這一點(diǎn)，就沒(méi)法理解中國(guó)，理解中國(guó)的崛起。
This is common sense in China. If you don't understand that, you cannot understand China's rise and China itself.
我會(huì)這樣來(lái)描述西方的模式，我認(rèn)為這種政治體制是代表部分利益集團(tuán)的，彼此間競(jìng)爭(zhēng)。
So this is what I call, in the case of Western model,?I would call the political system as a partial interest political party or parties, as they compete with each other.
中國(guó)共產(chǎn)黨代表著整體利益，它代表著中國(guó)絕大多數(shù)人民，形成共識(shí)，并用共識(shí)指導(dǎo)實(shí)踐。這是中國(guó)的獨(dú)特優(yōu)勢(shì)。
In the Chinese case, it's?a holistic interest Party. It represents the overwhelming majority of Chinese people and shapes consensus and?works on that. So this is China's unique advantage.?
我們可以進(jìn)行大膽改革和長(zhǎng)期計(jì)劃，不僅是對(duì)明年的計(jì)劃，我們可以為下一代、下一個(gè)世紀(jì)制定計(jì)劃。
We can make bold reforms and long-term plans, not only plans for the next year,?but plans for the next generation and the next century.
香港要繁榮，還得靠這劑中國(guó)“藥方”
我兩個(gè)月前在英國(guó)。我說(shuō)，何必舉行公投呢？進(jìn)行公投，脫歐和留歐雙方只有3.6%的差距，然后社會(huì)變得更加分裂。這不是最佳方式。
I was in the UK just two months ago. I said, why do you bother with this referendum? There is only 3.6 percent difference?about Brexit,?you have a referendum and then society becomes more and more divided. It's not?the best way.
我們有“從群眾中來(lái)，到群眾中去”，再到群眾中去作宣傳解釋?zhuān)癁槿罕姷囊庖?jiàn)。再?gòu)娜罕娭屑衅饋?lái)，再到群眾中堅(jiān)持下去。這樣就能達(dá)成共識(shí)，全國(guó)達(dá)成共識(shí)，讓國(guó)家向前進(jìn)。
We’ve got what we call “from the people, to the?people”, one round, “to the people, from the people”, another round, “from the?people, to the people” again another round. And then reaching consensus, the whole nation has built up consensus and moves this nation forward.
如果我們看大灣區(qū)的整體倡議，你會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)其中清楚提到了如何提高人們的生活水平。這很關(guān)鍵。
We look at the whole proposal for this Greater Bay Area; you'll find a very clear reference to how to improve people's living standards and quality of life. And this is crucial.
西方經(jīng)常提的是分而治之。中國(guó)方法正相反，我們是團(tuán)結(jié)共榮。
And in the West, we often hear what’s called divide and rule. The Chinese approach is just the opposite. Our?approaches are called unite and prosper.
我給香港的建議就是團(tuán)結(jié)共榮。別聽(tīng)信西方的分而治之，那樣香港會(huì)被嚴(yán)重削弱。
So?that's my advice to Hong Kong, unite and prosper. Don't follow this Western advice, divide and rule. Hong Kong will be declined sharply if you follow that?approach.
大灣區(qū)是團(tuán)結(jié)共榮的一個(gè)絕佳案例。大多數(shù)人都會(huì)通過(guò)雙贏合作受益。
So this Greater Bay Area is a good example of unite and prosper. Most people would?benefit through this win-win cooperation.
起草大灣區(qū)倡議的整個(gè)過(guò)程中，協(xié)商無(wú)處不在。
If you look at the whole process of drafting?this Greater Bay Area Initiative, it's all kind of consultations.
?我經(jīng)常建議我的西方朋友，如果想了解中國(guó)，就仔細(xì)研究決策過(guò)程。
So I always counsel my Western friends, if you want to understand China, look at the?decision-making process.
傾聽(tīng)內(nèi)部和外部聲音，黨內(nèi)的智囊、黨外的智囊，然后進(jìn)行決策。
The internal,?the external, with think tanks within the Party, outside the Party. And then you come to a kind of decision-making.
你需要有遠(yuǎn)見(jiàn)的戰(zhàn)略，不然是行不通的。
And you?need forward-looking strategies, otherwise it will not work.
辯證、試驗(yàn)：古老智慧的現(xiàn)代應(yīng)用
還有當(dāng)?shù)氐母?jìng)爭(zhēng)與合作。其實(shí)有人做過(guò)調(diào)查。我贊同他們的結(jié)論，中國(guó)的成功在很大程度上，是縣與縣競(jìng)爭(zhēng)與合作的成功。
And then local competition and cooperation. Actually,?some people did a serious study; I tend to agree with their conclusion that China's success to a great extent is a success of local competition and cooperation at the county level.
一個(gè)主要原因是當(dāng)?shù)氐姆e極性在競(jìng)爭(zhēng)中被充分調(diào)動(dòng)起來(lái)。縣與縣的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)、城市之間的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)、省際競(jìng)爭(zhēng)。但中央政府會(huì)確保，這些競(jìng)爭(zhēng)不會(huì)變成惡性競(jìng)爭(zhēng)，而是良性的、雙贏的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)。
One major reason is local initiatives have been brought into full play through local competition, competition at the county level, at the city level, at the provincial level. Yet the central government tried to make sure that it will not become a vicious competition. They will be competitions that produce win-win.
這也是中國(guó)哲學(xué)中陰陽(yáng)的思想。兩者可以結(jié)合，這點(diǎn)我們很擅長(zhǎng)。鼓勵(lì)一定程度的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)，但要確保大體上是合作的。
This is also part of Chinese philosophy, which is called?yin?and?yang, as it can be combined. We're good at that. You encourage a certain degree of competition, yet you ensure overall cooperation.
還有試驗(yàn)法。中國(guó)的方法總是從試點(diǎn)項(xiàng)目開(kāi)始，然后看看這種方法行不行得通。如果可行，我們將成功經(jīng)驗(yàn)擴(kuò)展到其他地區(qū)。
And then experimentation. In the Chinese approach we always start with pilot projects and?try to see whether they work or not. They work. We extend experience elsewhere. Within this Greater Bay Area Initiative, we have all kinds of pilot projects.
大灣區(qū)倡議，就包括各種試點(diǎn)項(xiàng)目。
Within this Greater Bay Area Initiative, we have all kinds of pilot projects.?
比如深圳，成為中國(guó)特色社會(huì)主義先行示范區(qū)。還有區(qū)域一體化, 一個(gè)很好的例子是城市群和大灣區(qū)。
For instance, Shenzhen is officially given the plan. It's called the pioneering zone for a socialist new city.?And then, regional integration, this idea of multiple city clusters and the Greater Bay Area is a great example.
這些城市群發(fā)揮了一加一大于二的效應(yīng)，大灣區(qū)將會(huì)是新的典范。
These clusters really play a role of what we call one plus one is larger than two and?the Greater Bay Area will be a new example of this.
創(chuàng)造經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)，我們不靠房地產(chǎn)
中國(guó)模式強(qiáng)調(diào)創(chuàng)造新經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)點(diǎn)。
And then in the Chinese model we emphasize a lot whether we can?create new points of growth.
大灣區(qū)就聚焦這些新經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)點(diǎn)。比如澳門(mén)特區(qū)，中央政府的規(guī)劃是讓澳門(mén)成為旅游休閑中心以及葡語(yǔ)國(guó)家交流中心。
The?Greater Bay Area focuses on our new points of growth. For instance, for Macao SAR, the central government said in this plan, Macao will become a center of tourism?and?leisure, as well as a center for Portuguese-speaking exchanges.
具有前瞻性的中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)，在形勢(shì)倒逼之下適應(yīng)和擁抱新科技。
The forward-looking Chinese economy has been forced and compelled to make a readjustment?to embrace the new technologies.
人們經(jīng)常提到中國(guó)的經(jīng)濟(jì)增速。其實(shí)，如果不擁抱新經(jīng)濟(jì)，而是固守舊的經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展模式，過(guò)度依賴(lài)房地產(chǎn)，中國(guó)的經(jīng)濟(jì)增速很容易達(dá)到8%到9%。
People?talk a lot about China's growth rate. In fact, if we do not embrace the new?economy, we stay with the old economy. You just build real estate. China’s economy can easily achieve?8 percent or 9 percent growth rate.
但我們不會(huì)那樣做，我們調(diào)整經(jīng)濟(jì)結(jié)構(gòu)，沿著科技鏈條和附加值鏈條不斷往上游走。這就是未來(lái)。
But we don't do that.?Economic restructuring and moving up in the technological chain and value chain. This is the future.
我認(rèn)為大灣區(qū)會(huì)成為中國(guó)發(fā)展的巨大動(dòng)能。
I think the Greater Bay Area will become a mega power of success.
非常感謝！
Thank you very much.
來(lái)源：中國(guó)日?qǐng)?bào)雙語(yǔ)新聞（ID：Chinadaily_Mobile）
