埃森哲（Accenture）是全球最大的上市咨詢公司，為超過120個(gè)國家200個(gè)城市的客戶提供戰(zhàn)略、咨詢、數(shù)字、技術(shù)和運(yùn)營服務(wù)及解決方案，其客戶包括多個(gè)世界500強(qiáng)企業(yè)、各國政府機(jī)構(gòu)以及軍隊(duì)。 現(xiàn)在，埃森哲在全球各地?fù)碛?0萬名員工，僅過去18個(gè)月就新雇用了20萬人。該公司意識(shí)到，必須想出新方法來招聘、留住并取悅?cè)瞬拧０Ｉ蹸EO沈居麗（Julie Sweet）在采訪時(shí)談到了公司的許多舉措，包括埃森哲在元宇宙中為員工提供培訓(xùn)。 沈居麗自2019年起擔(dān)任埃森哲的CEO，并于去年成為公司董事長(zhǎng)。沈居麗在工作中得到了法律背景的加持，此前她曾擔(dān)任埃森哲的總法律顧問，在進(jìn)入埃森哲之前，她擔(dān)任著名律師事務(wù)所Cravath及Swaine & Moore的合伙人。 《哈佛商業(yè)評(píng)論》英文版總編輯殷阿笛和沈居麗在“工作新世界”系列視頻中討論了： ?無論員工的專業(yè)水平如何，埃森哲都希望他們擁有最重要的技能：學(xué)習(xí)能力。 ?AI和其他技術(shù)如何幫助員工進(jìn)行技能重塑，以滿足不斷變化的市場(chǎng)需求。 ?在“增強(qiáng)連接”和元宇宙的幫助下，未來“物質(zhì)數(shù)字化（phygital）”（由物理和數(shù)字融合而成）所打造的工作場(chǎng)所可能是什么樣子，會(huì)給人們帶來什么樣的工作體驗(yàn)。

以下為視頻第二部分的對(duì)話內(nèi)容：

ADI IGNATIUS:?

Talk more about that. I mean, I know that you have explored dropping certain requirements, degrees, things like that. And now thinking more broadly, I think you have an apprenticeship program in this area too. I’d love to hear more specifics about how you’re trying to tackle this.

殷阿笛：

我知道埃森哲已經(jīng)嘗試過放棄對(duì)某些崗位的要求，例如對(duì)學(xué)歷方面的要求?，F(xiàn)在，我知道埃森哲在業(yè)內(nèi)也有一個(gè)學(xué)徒計(jì)劃?？梢栽敿?xì)說說該計(jì)劃的更多細(xì)節(jié)嗎？

JULIE SWEET:?

It’s starting in North America, although we’ve now done this globally with respect to skills. We re-looked at our job requirements. For example, in North America, nearly 50% of our job openings do not require four-year degrees. And they used to all require four-year degrees. That immediately opens you up to a broader pool of people that you can hire from. And in fact, about 20% of the people we actually hire for those openings do not have four-year degrees. So we’ve expanded the pool of people who we can go after to fill these jobs.

沈居麗：

這個(gè)項(xiàng)目始于北美，盡管我們現(xiàn)在在技能方面已經(jīng)做到了全球領(lǐng)先，但埃森哲仍正在不斷審視招聘職位的要求。例如，在北美，我們當(dāng)前的公開招聘中，大約50%的崗位都不需要四年制的本科學(xué)位。過去，這些崗位都要求應(yīng)聘者擁有全日制的本科學(xué)位（4年）。這一變動(dòng)立即為公司拓展到更廣闊的人才庫。事實(shí)上，在公開招聘的崗位中，約有20%的入職者沒有全日制本科學(xué)位。 At the same time, we’ve explored other ways of both expanding our access to talent, making a positive impact on our communities, and also creating a more diverse workforce. And we’ve done that through the apprenticeship program. It started actually when I became the CEO of North America in the US back in 2015. We had this amazing program called Skills to Succeed where we were skilling people in the community, but we weren’t actually hiring people at Accenture. And so we started with seven apprentices in Chicago. And that program started actually in 2016, we’ve now had over 1,200 apprentices go through our program. We hire most of them. We have incredible retention. And 20% of our hiring in the US, our entry level hiring in the US, will be through our apprenticeship program, which is about 50/50 men and women, about nearly 60% or more racially or ethnically diverse and almost all come from very challenged socioeconomic backgrounds. And these are individuals who would not have been on a path to get a job at Accenture using our old way of hiring because we had to think out of the box and really look at skills and potential and then be willing to train ourselves. 我們還探索了其他方法來擴(kuò)充人才獲取渠道，在打造多元化員工隊(duì)伍的同時(shí)，增進(jìn)對(duì)社會(huì)的積極影響，我們通過學(xué)徒計(jì)劃實(shí)現(xiàn)了這一點(diǎn)。該計(jì)劃開始于2015年，那時(shí)我在美國擔(dān)任北美首席執(zhí)行官。埃森哲有一個(gè)名為“成功技能”（Skills to Succeed）的項(xiàng)目，在這個(gè)令人驚嘆的項(xiàng)目中，我們?yōu)樯鐓^(qū)中的人員提供技能培訓(xùn)，但當(dāng)時(shí)公司并沒有雇用他們成為埃森哲員工的打算。該項(xiàng)目于2016年正式啟動(dòng)，從芝加哥最初的七名學(xué)徒，到現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)有1200多名學(xué)徒參加了該項(xiàng)目。現(xiàn)在，我們聘用了其中的大部分人，這是令人難以置信的學(xué)徒留職率。埃森哲在美國發(fā)布的招聘中，有20%是入門級(jí)職位。這部分申請(qǐng)者都參加過公司的學(xué)徒項(xiàng)目，其中男性和女性的各占比50%，同時(shí)包含將近60%的少數(shù)族裔，以保證族裔多樣性。此外，幾乎學(xué)徒計(jì)劃中的所有成員都擁有極具挑戰(zhàn)性的社會(huì)經(jīng)濟(jì)背景。倘若我們用以前的招聘方式，這些人不可能在埃森哲找到工作。因此，我們必須突破固有的思維局限，真正關(guān)注應(yīng)聘者的技能和潛力，以發(fā)現(xiàn)并培養(yǎng)這些人才。 That kind of comes back to that need to be a talent creator. And I would tell you it’s a huge win because these are some of our best employees, great retention, great learners. And of course they’ve opened up terrific new pathways for them. 這又回到了公司需要成為一個(gè)人才創(chuàng)造者的話題。我想表達(dá)的是，這是一個(gè)巨大的勝利，因?yàn)橥ㄟ^學(xué)徒計(jì)劃進(jìn)入埃森哲的應(yīng)聘者，都是公司最好的員工，他們有很高的留職率且具備較強(qiáng)的學(xué)習(xí)能力。當(dāng)然，是他們?yōu)樽约簞?chuàng)造了更好的未來。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

I want to shift gears a little bit and this may be to the surprise of some of our viewers, but Accenture is often mentioned as a leader in the kind of corporate applications of the metaverse. What does the metaverse do for Accenture?

殷阿笛：

我想稍微換個(gè)方向，埃森哲經(jīng)常被認(rèn)為是元宇宙應(yīng)用領(lǐng)域的企業(yè)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。你認(rèn)為元宇宙為埃森哲做了什么？

JULIE SWEET:?

We’re really excited about the metaverse. We just put our tech vision out called the?Metaverse Continuum. If you haven’t read it, please take a look at it. We think the metaverse is as impactful as the tech vision that we did back in 2013, when we said that every business would be a digital business, which has definitely come true a decade later. And we think the metaverse is that significant in terms of what it’ll do for the next decade. And this year we will onboard about 150,000 people by going through Accenture’s metaverse called One Accenture Park, which we think is the largest enterprise metaverse in the world. It used the beta version of Mesh by Microsoft. And what it does is it brings together people who’ve joined Accenture in the metaverse to explore Accenture, to have a shared experience with other new joiners when we’re still not having in-person shared experiences.

沈居麗：

我們對(duì)元宇宙真的感到非常興奮。埃森哲剛剛提出了技術(shù)愿景，名為元宇宙連續(xù)體（Metaverse Continuum）。如果你還不知道，請(qǐng)看一下。我們認(rèn)為元宇宙與公司在2013年提出的技術(shù)愿景一樣具有影響力，當(dāng)時(shí)，埃森哲提出每個(gè)企業(yè)都將成為數(shù)字企業(yè)，這在十年后的今天已經(jīng)實(shí)現(xiàn)。我們認(rèn)為元宇宙在未來十年有著重大的發(fā)展意義。今年，埃森哲將通過名為埃森哲公園一號(hào)（One Accenture Park）的元宇宙吸引約15萬人，這將成為全球最大的企業(yè)元宇宙。埃森哲公園一號(hào)使用了微軟的Mesh測(cè)試版。它的作用是將加入埃森哲元宇宙的人聚集在一起來探索公司，在老員工還沒有親自分享工作經(jīng)驗(yàn)時(shí)，讓元宇宙與新員工分享經(jīng)驗(yàn)。 And our research shows that immersive learning for short sprints, so not all day in the metaverse, this is about a 30-minute experience, is actually more impactful. It’s been extraordinarily well received by our people who are onboarding, who find it, both learning, but also it creates bonds of these shared experiences with other people who are going through it. So I just took my board through it recently and they absolutely loved it. It’s super innovative. And if you’re an innovative company and you’re trying to show that innovation, then there’s no better way than introducing your company to new joiners through some of the most cutting edge technology. 我們的研究表明，相比于一整天都泡在元宇宙內(nèi)，大約30分鐘的沉浸式學(xué)習(xí)更有效率。這種學(xué)習(xí)模式受到了公司員工的熱烈歡迎，他們發(fā)現(xiàn)這既是學(xué)習(xí)，也是在與元宇宙中的其他人創(chuàng)造共同經(jīng)歷。所以我最近剛剛帶領(lǐng)董事會(huì)通過了埃森哲公園一號(hào)提案，它極具創(chuàng)新性。如果你是一家創(chuàng)新型公司，并且試圖展示創(chuàng)新，那么最好的方法就是引入前沿技術(shù)向新人介紹公司。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

I can imagine what you’re talking about, but for viewers who may think, okay, I don’t get this, I really don’t get what the metaverse is, what is the experience? What are people doing? What are they seeing? How are they interacting in ways that they wouldn’t be just by, let’s say the conversation that we’re having like this.

殷阿笛：

我可以想象你在說什么，但對(duì)于讀者來說，他們可能會(huì)想：好吧，我搞不懂這個(gè)！我真的不明白元宇宙是什么，體驗(yàn)是什么，人們?cè)谧鍪裁矗麄兛吹搅耸裁?。還有，除了普通的互動(dòng)方式，比如我們正在進(jìn)行的對(duì)話，他們是如何互動(dòng)交流的呢？

JULIE SWEET:?

Instead of just looking at each other and having someone explain, well here, you’re going to learn about TQ and here are the different things that our services do. Instead, when you join Accenture, someone will take you through building your own avatar, which you get to do yourself. You’ll put on some glasses, some people do it in 2D, most use glasses and do it in 3D. And when you step into the metaverse, you are literally with say 30 other people who are also on their first or second day at Accenture. You start by talking to them. They get you familiar with how you move around. And if you’ve had a metaverse experience, it’s like going to a cocktail party where you only hear the people near you. You don’t hear the people far away. So there’s 30 people say in the experience and you’re not hearing 30 people talk at once. You’re actually talking to people as if you were in person next to them.

沈居麗：

在元宇宙中，你將了解TQ，而不僅僅是和老員工四目相對(duì)，或聽他們照本宣科，這就是我們的差異化所在。當(dāng)你加入埃森哲時(shí)，會(huì)有人幫你建立虛擬形象，你可以定義自己在公司元宇宙中的形象。大多數(shù)新員工會(huì)戴上眼鏡，或者直接看著屏幕進(jìn)入元宇宙。當(dāng)踏入虛擬世界時(shí)，你實(shí)際上和另外30個(gè)人一起探索，他們也剛剛進(jìn)入埃森哲一兩天。你首先要與其他人交談，這個(gè)過程是在幫助新員工熟悉在元宇宙中的移動(dòng)方式。元宇宙體驗(yàn)就像去參加一個(gè)雞尾酒會(huì)，你只能聽到周圍人的交談，而聽不到遠(yuǎn)處的對(duì)話。因此，雖然在元宇宙中同時(shí)有30個(gè)人說話，但你不會(huì)在同一時(shí)刻聽到30個(gè)人和你交流。在元宇宙中的交流就像你真的在和別人對(duì)話，他們?cè)谀闵砼砸粯印?Then we explore, we take you to different parts of the metaverse. So for example, you’ll go to an area where you learn about RTQ training and you can tap on something and it’ll actually immerse you in, “Hey, this is what you’re going to learn.” And you’ll actually see it. It’ll then take you to other parts of Accenture. So we have an innovation lab in San Francisco and you’ll actually go to, in our metaverse, there’s an identical replica of that. You get to go experience and say, “Hey, this is what it’s going to look like when you’re there. Here’s what we have.” You can touch buttons and see the different examples of things like drones, etc. that we have in some of our things. And so it basically brings to life in 3D the world and you’re doing it with people all over the world. 然后我們會(huì)進(jìn)行探索，我們會(huì)帶你去元宇宙中的不同地方。例如，你會(huì)去一個(gè)學(xué)習(xí)RTQ訓(xùn)練的區(qū)域，通過點(diǎn)擊一些東西，給你帶來沉浸式體驗(yàn)，“嘿，這就是你要學(xué)習(xí)的內(nèi)容，”你真的會(huì)看到它。然后元宇宙會(huì)帶你去埃森哲的其他地方。我們?cè)谂f金山有一個(gè)創(chuàng)新實(shí)驗(yàn)室，在元宇宙中，你會(huì)看到一個(gè)完全相同的復(fù)制品。你可以去體驗(yàn)一下，然后說：“在現(xiàn)實(shí)中它就是這樣子的，這是真實(shí)存在的?！蹦憧梢酝ㄟ^觸摸按鈕，查看公司無人機(jī)等產(chǎn)品樣本。元宇宙基本上用3D還原了現(xiàn)實(shí)世界，你可以與世界各地的同事一起探索。 You’re beginning to have these shared experiences. You’re talking, you’re able to react with the people standing next to you. You’re able to ask them questions like, “Oh, where are you from? Oh, I’m going to do this.” And so it’s literally as if you’ve been taken someplace physically and are experiencing it with, in many ways, the ways we used to do onboarding because people did come to offices and they would get to experience things. And at the time we might take them on Teams to another innovation hub, but they really get to experience it. 你們會(huì)開始有這些共同經(jīng)歷。當(dāng)你在說話時(shí)，你能夠?qū)φ驹谂赃叺娜俗龀龇磻?yīng)。你可以問他們一些問題，比如：“你從哪里來？噢，我要做這個(gè)?！本秃孟衲惚粠У搅爽F(xiàn)實(shí)世界中的某個(gè)地方，元宇宙與線下的入職流程是大致相同的，因?yàn)槿藗兇_實(shí)來到了辦公室，獲得了一些體驗(yàn)。在那時(shí)，我們可能會(huì)用 Teams軟件帶新員工前往另一個(gè)創(chuàng)新中心，他們確實(shí)能獲得與線下參觀同樣的體驗(yàn)。 We’re also doing client visits in the same way. I stood up with 30 clients in our innovation hub, entirely in the metaverse, showed them 3D examples of the things that we have there as if they were actually sitting and getting to see it. 埃森哲也在以同樣的方式提供客戶訪問體驗(yàn)。我與30位客戶一起在元宇宙里來到埃森哲的創(chuàng)新實(shí)驗(yàn)室，向他們展示實(shí)驗(yàn)室里擁有實(shí)物的3D演示，給他們創(chuàng)造身臨其境的體驗(yàn)感。 It’s super powerful and we’ve been doing the underlying technology since 2007. And I will tell you, I joined Accenture in 2010. And I remember my first technology showcase, which we would have at all our internal leadership meetings. And I remember putting on glasses for the first time and I was a lawyer and I was like, “This will never make sense.” And back then it was super clunky. It wasn’t real. It is amazing if you haven’t experienced it, what technology does today. And we’re working on it to do everything from onboarding experiences and doing training. If you’re retail or consumer-facing, it will be just another way to engage. Like we’re overwhelmed by demand right here, because now leading brands all believe they have to have a metaverse customer engagement. 元宇宙非常強(qiáng)大，2007年以來我們一直在做底層技術(shù)。我在2010年加入埃森哲，我還記得第一次做技術(shù)展示時(shí)，是在內(nèi)部領(lǐng)導(dǎo)會(huì)議上進(jìn)行展示。當(dāng)時(shí)我還是一名律師，回憶起第一次戴上眼鏡，我想：“這永遠(yuǎn)沒有意義?！碑?dāng)時(shí)設(shè)備非常笨重，沒法給用戶帶來真切的感官體驗(yàn)。如果你體驗(yàn)過元宇宙，那么你一定會(huì)驚訝于當(dāng)今的科技。埃森哲正在努力在元宇宙中開展從入職體驗(yàn)到培訓(xùn)的所有工作。如果你是零售企業(yè)或要面向消費(fèi)者，這將是另一種參與方式?，F(xiàn)在市場(chǎng)已經(jīng)供不應(yīng)求了，因?yàn)轭I(lǐng)先的品牌都認(rèn)識(shí)到必須在元宇宙中擁有客戶參與度。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

And the technology’s only going to get better. I mean, we spent a lot of time this season talking about dispersed work versus being in office, how many days, and this is something else entirely. And it almost seems like that question could seem quaint if the experiences are so engaging that it will blur what we thought was the value of the in-person experience. I almost question myself as I say that sentence, but that’s sort of the inevitable place to end up, right?

殷阿笛：

也許更令人興奮的是元宇宙將如何用于實(shí)際運(yùn)營企業(yè)。我們?cè)谏a(chǎn)基地周圍建立了數(shù)字孿生，然后從數(shù)字孿生到實(shí)際基地，從物理和數(shù)字兩方面做出改變，這真的會(huì)改變工作方式和人與人之間的交往方式。在未來，在虛擬世界工作和現(xiàn)場(chǎng)辦公相結(jié)合將是大勢(shì)所趨對(duì)嗎？

JULIE SWEET:?

I would say that we will always have physical and digital, and that’s the power of the future is that it’s not all physical or all digital, it’s the mix. And to your point, the technology is at very early stages. While we’ve been literally experimenting and using the underlying technologies going all the way back to 2007, and while the comparison from then to now is amazing, we’re just getting started. And there’s a ton of technology developments that need to occur until we really can be operating in the metaverse in a persistent way across platforms in your personal and professional life.

沈居麗：

我們永遠(yuǎn)能在物理和數(shù)字兩方面進(jìn)行突破，這就是未來的力量。這項(xiàng)技術(shù)不是純物理或數(shù)字的，而是混合的。就你的觀點(diǎn)而言，這項(xiàng)技術(shù)還處于非常早期的階段。雖然我們從2007年起就一直在嘗試和使用底層技術(shù)，這項(xiàng)技術(shù)在十幾年間經(jīng)歷了突飛猛進(jìn)的變化，但我們才剛剛開始。在我們真正能夠在個(gè)人和職業(yè)生活中，以持久的方式在元宇宙中跨平臺(tái)運(yùn)行之前，還需要進(jìn)行大量的技術(shù)開發(fā)。 At the same time, the future is, we sometimes call it “phygital”, physical and digital, and it’s just at the ease of going in between those worlds and using the digital worlds and technology to augment connections, relationships, and productivity will remain the goal as opposed to digital being the destination, I mean, fully virtual being the destination. 與此同時(shí)，我們有時(shí)會(huì)說未來是“物質(zhì)數(shù)字化”（phygital），它可以輕松地穿梭在不同世界之間，并使用數(shù)字世界和技術(shù)來增強(qiáng)生產(chǎn)力。我的意思是，這不會(huì)完全轉(zhuǎn)變?yōu)閿?shù)字化的虛擬化的目的地。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

I want to ask another question from our viewers, and this is from Adna in Brunei. People are listening closely to what you’re saying about skill sets and hiring. Adna’s question is, in your personal opinion, what would be the most essential skill sets that graduating students should equip themselves with?

殷阿笛：

又一個(gè)來自觀眾的問題：人們正在仔細(xì)聆聽你所說的有關(guān)技能和招聘的內(nèi)容，在你個(gè)人看來，畢業(yè)生應(yīng)該具備哪些最基本的技能？

JULIE SWEET:?

Technology literacy, and what I mean by that is you need to treat computer science like reading. Not that you need to ever be a programmer, but you have to have experienced it. You need to have basic knowledge about what is the cloud, what is AI, and some of the best schools really are creating technology curriculums that are not intended to graduate a technologist, so someone who’s actually going to either program or build technology, but to build technology literacy. Until then, really sort of curating your own program so that if you’re graduating, you understand, you have basic understanding of these skills that are really important.

沈居麗：

技術(shù)素養(yǎng)，你需要像對(duì)待閱讀一樣對(duì)待計(jì)算機(jī)科學(xué)。這并不是說你必須成為一名程序員，而是你需要對(duì)技術(shù)有基本的了解。你需要具備云技術(shù)和人工智能的基本知識(shí)，部分頂尖學(xué)校確實(shí)在創(chuàng)建技術(shù)課程，這些課程不是為了讓學(xué)生在畢業(yè)時(shí)成為程序員，而是為了培養(yǎng)技術(shù)素養(yǎng)。在那之前，你要真正的制定學(xué)習(xí)計(jì)劃，這樣當(dāng)你即將畢業(yè)，你就能對(duì)這些非常重要的技能有基本的了解。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

Steve in California asks, and it gets to the sort of full-time employees versus gig workers, “Do you find that you’re using more freelancers as part of your workforce as a way to access the hot skills that you need?”

殷阿笛：

這一個(gè)用戶提問是關(guān)于全職員工與兼職員工之間的關(guān)系：在當(dāng)前公司內(nèi)部，埃森哲是否有雇傭大量兼職員工為公司工作，以此獲得公司需要的熱門技能？

JULIE SWEET:?

We are not. We don’t really use the gig economy at scale. That may be something that we do in the future. It’s, in large part, because of the sort of demand that we have, the needs for security, the training that goes on. For us, we haven’t found it that productive to do a lot with the gig economy. Certainly, many of our clients are successfully accessing those skills, but I think it’s going to depend on the industry and the kinds of demand that they have. As you can imagine, for us, because we create skills and the skills change a lot, and we have that ability, we’re not dabbling sort of in and out. So, we haven’t really had a big use yet of the gig economy.

沈居麗：

埃森哲并沒有真正大規(guī)模地利用零工經(jīng)濟(jì)，這可能是我們將來要做的事情。兼職員工的雇傭在很大程度上取決于公司的需求，對(duì)安全的需求，以及正在進(jìn)行的培訓(xùn)。對(duì)埃森哲來說，我們還未發(fā)現(xiàn)大量使用兼職員工能提升公司的運(yùn)營效率。當(dāng)然，埃森哲的許多客戶都成功地利用了零工經(jīng)濟(jì)，但我認(rèn)為這要取決于行業(yè)和需求類型。正如你想象的那樣，由于技能變化很大，而且埃森哲有適應(yīng)技能需求快速變化能力，所以我們不會(huì)涉足其中。因此，埃森哲還沒有真正充分利用零工經(jīng)濟(jì)。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

This is from Manuela in Frankfurt. “What role do soft skills play in your hiring process, and do you consider soft skills as the new hard skills?”

殷阿笛：

這一個(gè)用戶提問是：軟技能在貴公司的招聘過程中扮演著什么樣的角色？你認(rèn)為軟技能可以被視為一種硬技能嗎？

JULIE SWEET:?

It’s a great phrase, and I think that soft skills were always a hard skill in our view, and it goes back to that view about leadership. We certainly ask a lot about how people think about, for example, leaders coming in, about how they lead people, which are soft skills. So, soft skills are absolutely important, such as communication skills. In fact, when we were trying to expand our ability to hire more women into technical jobs, because we can do so much training, we actually have gone to, for example, liberal arts schools and hired in more people with great critical thinking skills, really good soft skills, and then train them on the technology. I certainly think that soft skills are absolutely critical, and they’re an important part of the interviewing process.

沈居麗：

這是個(gè)很好的說法。在我們看來，軟技能始終是硬技能，這可以追溯到領(lǐng)導(dǎo)力相關(guān)的觀點(diǎn)。埃森哲當(dāng)然會(huì)詢問很多員工對(duì)此的意見，例如，新上任的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者會(huì)如何領(lǐng)導(dǎo)員工，這是一種軟技能。因此，軟技能絕對(duì)是重要的，例如溝通技巧。事實(shí)上，當(dāng)埃森哲有能力提供大量培訓(xùn)，雇用更多女性從事技術(shù)工作時(shí)，我們實(shí)際上已經(jīng)在文科學(xué)校之類的地方，雇用更多具有出色批判性思維能力的人，這是真正優(yōu)秀的軟技能，然后再培養(yǎng)他們的技術(shù)能力。當(dāng)然，我認(rèn)為軟技能絕對(duì)至關(guān)重要，它也是面試過程中很重要的一部分。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

So here’s a question from New York City. “What steps do organizations need to take to improve the mental health of their employees?”

殷阿笛：

這里有一個(gè)來自紐約的用戶提問：組織需要采取哪些措施來改善員工的心理健康？

JULIE SWEET:?

One of the big benefits, which it’s hard to say that because the pandemic was so difficult, but I think there has been, in the corporate world at least, a real focus on mental health that I believe will continue. We have a leadership essential called Caring for Your People Personally and Professionally, and mental health is certainly an important part of that. I think as organizations, understanding whether you offer the right benefits, doing listening for your people in terms of what they think they need around mental health and then having a strategy around it. If you’re a leader in a company and you can’t say, “Here’s how we are working on making sure that we are helping the mental health of our employees,” then it probably is a signal that you’re not doing enough.

沈居麗：

其實(shí)這很難說，但我認(rèn)為，至少在企業(yè)界，人們真正地關(guān)注心理健康，我相信這種關(guān)注將會(huì)持續(xù)下去。我們有一項(xiàng)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)力要素，稱為“在個(gè)人和職場(chǎng)兩方面關(guān)心員工”，而心理健康無疑是其中的重要組成部分。作為公司，你應(yīng)當(dāng)了解是否為員工提供了真正的福利，傾聽員工在心理健康方面的需求，然后制定相應(yīng)戰(zhàn)略。作為一家公司的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者，你不能說“我們正在努力確保員工的心理健康”，如果你這么想，那可能是一個(gè)信號(hào)，表明你對(duì)員工心理健康方面的關(guān)注不夠。 One of the things we’re really proud of is a partnership that we have with Thrive, Ariana Huffington’s company, where we’ve had over 180,000 people complete a mental wellness computer and science-based program. It’s been probably the most successful program that we’ve provided our employees. The numbers grow each week because it does have really good results in terms of helping people be less anxious and feel more able to care for themselves. The big question in my mind is, “Do you know what your strategy is?” We just hired a chief health officer. One of the things that she looks after is ensuring that we’ve got the right strategy and execution of that strategy. 我們真正引以為豪的一件事是，埃森哲與阿里安娜·赫芬頓（Ariana Huffington）的公司Thrive建立了合作關(guān)系。在那里，已經(jīng)有超過18萬人完成了基于計(jì)算機(jī)和科學(xué)的心理健康計(jì)劃。這可能是埃森哲為員工提供的最成功的項(xiàng)目。而且我們的培訓(xùn)人數(shù)每周都在增長(zhǎng)，該項(xiàng)目確實(shí)幫助員工減輕焦慮。我心中最大的問題是，“你知道應(yīng)對(duì)策略是什么嗎？”我們剛剛聘請(qǐng)了一位首席健康官，她負(fù)責(zé)的事情之一就是確保公司制定正確的戰(zhàn)略并執(zhí)行該戰(zhàn)略。

ADI IGNATIUS:?

You’ve been lauded as one of the most powerful women in business. There are, of course, many other celebrated female CEOs of big companies, but there’s still clearly an under-representation of top women, of women at the top in business. What’s your view? How will that change?

殷阿笛：

你被譽(yù)為商界最有能力的女性之一。當(dāng)然，其他很多知名公司也有女性CEO，但很明顯，女性在企業(yè)內(nèi)高層的占比不足，女性在商界高層的人數(shù)也較少。請(qǐng)問你如何看待這類現(xiàn)象？這種情況將如何改變？

JULIE SWEET:?

I think there is so much room for hope, not just optimism, because the fact is that it is changing. I remember when I became CEO back in 2019. It was shortly around when?Indra stepped down at PepsiCo, and there was this huge lament because she was so much a role model for all of us. It seemed like we were moving backwards. Since then, there have been so many exceptional women, Karen Lynch at CVS, Roz Brewer at Walgreens, Jane Fraser at Citi, Sonia Syngal at Gap. The list goes on and on, actually, which is really nice. I think there’s a lot of hope. What you’re starting to see is that the work that’s been done to create a pipeline of CEOs is starting to happen as there’s generational change. I think it’s good to end perhaps on a hopeful note, as I do believe that there’s a ton of reason for hope, and I see so many great women continuing to rise in companies, and that’s what you need. You need a pipeline in order for it to be at the top.

沈居麗：

我認(rèn)為依然充滿希望，這不僅是樂觀，而且是因?yàn)槭聦?shí)正在發(fā)生變化。我記得我在2019年剛擔(dān)任首席執(zhí)行官之時(shí)，盧英德（Indra）剛辭去了百事可樂公司的職務(wù)不久，人們對(duì)她的離開深表惋惜，因?yàn)樗俏覀兊陌駱?。看起來我們似乎在倒退。從那時(shí)起，商業(yè)領(lǐng)域出現(xiàn)了很多杰出的女性，例如CVS的凱倫·林奇、沃博聯(lián)的羅茲·布魯爾、花旗的簡(jiǎn)·弗雷澤、Gap的索尼婭·辛格爾。實(shí)際上，女性知名高管的數(shù)量一直在增加，這非常好。我認(rèn)為未來女性的職場(chǎng)發(fā)展有很大的希望。你會(huì)開始看到，隨著代際更替，CEO的后備人才輸送工作開始發(fā)生變化。我認(rèn)為，也許以充滿希望的方式結(jié)束我們今天的對(duì)話是件好事，因?yàn)槲掖_實(shí)相信有很多抱有希望的理由，而且我看到這么多偉大的女性在公司中持續(xù)晉升，這更能幫助我們堅(jiān)定信心，女性需要一個(gè)渠道以進(jìn)入公司高層。 殷阿笛是《哈佛商業(yè)評(píng)論》英文版總編輯。 殷阿笛（Adi Ignatius）| 訪??孫思宇 | 譯??蔣薈蓉 | 校??常敏瀟 | 編輯