正文翻譯

Everyone knows about the “Dark Ages” that followed the collapse of the Roman Empire in Europe, did other cultures have their own “Dark Ages” too?

眾所周知歐洲在羅馬帝國崩潰后進入了“黑暗時代”，其他文化也有自己的“黑暗時代”時刻嗎？

The only ones I could think of would be the Dark Age that followed the Bronze Age Collapse in the Eastern Mediterranean and the period of turmoil that followed the An Lushan Rebellion in China which was said to have ended China’s golden age, I’m no expert in Chinese history so feel free to correct me on that one. Was there ever a Dark Age in Indian History? Japanese? Mesoamerican?

我唯一能想到的就是東地中海青銅時代崩潰后的黑暗時代，以及據(jù)說結(jié)束了中國黃金時代的中國安祿山起義后的動蕩時期，我不是中國歷史專家，所以請隨時糾正我的錯誤。印度歷史上有過黑暗時代嗎？日本人呢？中美洲人呢？

評論翻譯

PiniataLad47
Hell, Mayans still exists today- according to Wikipedia, There are around 6 million,. So unlike what many may think the ethnic identity never disappeared unlike many others.

嘿，瑪雅人今天仍然存在-根據(jù)維基百科，大約還有600萬人。因此，與許多人可能認為的不同，瑪雅人的種族身份從未像其他許多人那樣消失。

MagnoliaLiliiflora
I watched a report not long ago about Mayan culture in Guatemala that was VERY interesting. There are definitely still people who identify ethnically as Mayan and who speak Mayan dialects, and try to keep other forms of Mayan culture alive within their communities. A bit more anecdotal but my husband and I did a tour of Tulum and our tour guide identified herself as Mayan in heritage and talked a little bit about it. She was a very intelligent and interesting woman!

不久前我看過一篇關(guān)于危地馬拉的瑪雅文化的報道，非常有趣。當然，仍然有一些人認為瑪雅人具有種族特征，他們講瑪雅方言，并試圖在他們的社區(qū)內(nèi)保持其他形式的瑪雅文化的活力。此外還有更多的軼事，我和我的丈夫參觀了圖盧姆，我們的導游認為自己是瑪雅后裔，并和我們談到了這一點。她是一個非常聰明有趣的女人！

Alpha_Bit_Poop
Yeah a friend from Yucatan is Mayan but she only knows all the dirty words in the language. At least they will live on!

是的，我在尤卡坦的一個朋友是瑪雅人，但她只知道瑪雅語言中所有的臟話。不過至少它們還能延續(xù)下去！

nixsee
I live in Guatemala, where there's surely the largest population of Mayans in the world. I work with many purely indigenous Mayan communities. They're 3rd class citizens here, after the mixed middle class and the Spanish pure-bred upper-class/owners.

我住在危地馬拉，那里肯定有世界上最多的瑪雅人。 我與許多純粹的土著瑪雅社區(qū)合作過。 他們是這里的第三等級公民，僅次于混合中產(chǎn)階級和西班牙純種的上層階級/所有者。

Voter_McVotey
I was helping a couple at my retail job, mother and son. She spoke what was obviously not Spanish. I asked the son what language it was. He said it was an old Maya language. It was cool to hear it in person. Language is cool!

我在做我的零售業(yè)工作時幫助過一對母子。她說的顯然不是西班牙語。我問兒子那是什么語言。他說這是一種古老的瑪雅語。能親耳聽到這么古老的語言，真是太酷了。語言是很酷的!

PiniataLad47
I've never had the opportunity to hear it in person, damn that's interesting.

我還沒有機會親自聽到過，淦這也太有趣了。

wbruce098
Yep, a friend of mine was a missionary in southern Belize, and brought me out there once. Lots of indigenous Mayans still living in the bush there. He just kinda takes US church money and helps people out over there building houses, repairing the school, etc cuz everyone’s dirt poor out there.

是的，我的一個朋友曾在南伯利茲當過傳教士，曾帶我去過那里。許多土著瑪雅人仍然生活在那里的灌木叢中。他只是拿了一些美國教堂的錢，幫助那里的人建造房子，修理學校等，因為那里每個人都很窮。

stefanlikesfood
I've met a lot of Mayans, specifically in western Belize there is still tribes. Speak a lot of English and their native languages. Really welcoming people, at least the ones I met

我見過很多瑪雅人，特別是在伯利茲西部，仍然有部落。大部分講英語和他們的母語。也很熱情好客，至少是在我見過的人里

sodemieters
This is the late bronze age collapse right? Maybe the greatest darkage of all time.

這是青銅時代晚期的崩潰對吧？ 可能是有史以來最偉大的黑暗時期。

dylan6091
I don't know much about ancient civs. Who were the sea people? Weren't they Mycenians?

我不太了解古代文明。海上民族是誰？他們不是邁錫尼人嗎？

sodemieters
Mass migration for whatever reason. They even ended up in Ireland according to the book of invasions

不管海上民族出于什么原因大規(guī)模移民。根據(jù)《入侵》一書，他們甚至最終來到了愛爾蘭

theorange1990
Most likely due to famine

很可能是因為饑荒

sodemieters
Agreed, and who knows what caused the famine. Climate change; collapse of agricultural systems; Ajax, Achilles, Diomedes and Odyseus pillaging the region :)

同意，不過誰知道是什么引起了饑荒。氣候變化；農(nóng)業(yè)系統(tǒng)崩潰；或者是阿賈克斯、阿喀琉斯、迪奧梅德斯和奧德修對該地區(qū)的掠奪:)

Billy1121
I am reading that 1077 bc book and it is intereting. Only thing I don't get is how this collapse brought about the Iton Age. You'd think advanced trade and tech would lead to iron discovery and use, not a collapse and dark age.

我正在讀關(guān)于公元前1077年的書，它是有趣的。 我唯一不明白的是這場崩潰是如何導致鐵器時代的。你會認為是先進的貿(mào)易和技術(shù)會導致鐵的發(fā)現(xiàn)和使用，而不是一個崩潰和黑暗的時代。

DrozdMensch
As i know it was proto Greek civilization, not Greek exactly

據(jù)我所知，這段時期說的是原始希臘文明，而不是希臘這個國家本身

[dexed]
"Proto-Greek" is a poor descxtor because it wrongly places classical Greece on a pedestal as the "true" Greece. The Mycenaeans were people who lived in Greece, spoke the Greek language, worshiped Greek gods, etc. They were Greek.
The political organization was different from classical Greece, sure, but that doesn't mean they weren't Greek.

“原始希臘”是一個糟糕的描述，因為它錯誤地只把古典希臘作為“真正的”希臘。邁錫尼人是生活在希臘、講希臘語、崇拜希臘神等的人。他們就是希臘人。
當然，這個政治組織不同于古典希臘，但這并不意味著他們不是希臘人。

NarwhalNetwork
Completely agree with this, its helpful to distinguish how cultures within cultures can diverge for the sake of organization, its not helpful for say understanding how these individuals saw themselves. For example, we describe the Eastern Romans after the "collapse" as the Byzantine Empire because of their varied culture, customs and demographics compared to what most understand as the Roman Empire, but that culture fully saw themselves as Roman and were all intents and purposes were Romans.

完全同意你說的，這種說法有助于區(qū)分文化內(nèi)部的文化如何因為其組織而分化，但這對于理解當時這些人是如何看待自己的并沒有幫助。例如，我們把 "崩潰"后的東羅馬人描述為拜占庭帝國，因為他們的文化、習俗和人口結(jié)構(gòu)與大多數(shù)人所理解的羅馬帝國相比有很大的差異，但他們自己本身的文化完全把自己看成是羅馬人，自己的一舉一動所思所想都是羅馬。

MansfromDaVinci
The Middle East and most of Asia went through a dark age caused by the Mongol invasions, the secondary empires like Tamerlane, followed by the black death. There was widespread settlement abandonment in 12-13th century North America for an unknown cause particularly in the Mississippi Basin. Slavery collapsed Central West African civilisations about the 15th and 16th century. The precolumbian Amazon Basin civilisations were annihilated by European plagues.

中東和亞洲大部分地區(qū)經(jīng)歷了蒙古人入侵、帖木兒等次生帝國造成的黑暗時代，之后是黑死病。在12-13世紀的北美，尤其是密西西比盆地，出現(xiàn)了普遍的定居點廢棄，原因不明。奴隸制大約在15-16世紀使中西非文明崩潰。前哥倫布時期的亞馬遜流域文明被歐洲的瘟疫所消滅。

Alpha_Bit_Poop
Mongols are like the 1200's Sea Peoples. Horse Peoples.

蒙古人就像1200年的海上民族。馬上民族。

choma90
Mongols were more like unified rampaging war machine. Sea peoples are unclear if they were a confederacy of pirate like civilizations or if the world had gone to shit so badly that there so many random bandits and pirates that the term "sea peoples" was coined to reffer to all that rabble.

蒙古人更像是一臺統(tǒng)一的狂暴戰(zhàn)爭機器。海上民族不清楚他們到底是海盜一樣的文明聯(lián)盟，還是世界已經(jīng)亂了套，以至于隨機的強盜和海盜太多，所以創(chuàng)造了 "海上民族"這個詞，來指代那些暴民。

iTransphobe
The Middle East is going through another dark age after the fall of the Ottoman empire.

在奧斯曼帝國垮臺后，中東正經(jīng)歷另一個黑暗時代。

haleandheartless
You're right. Fractured and warring. This will be seen as a dark period.

你說得對。斷裂和戰(zhàn)亂。這將被視為一個黑暗時期。

EowalasVarAttre
I don't think that you understand what a "dark age" is. Dark ages are not a period of decline, but a period with a significant lack of written source. They are "dark" for us because we do not have as much information about them, not because the life was hard at the time.

我不認為你明白什么是“黑暗時代。 黑暗時代不是一個衰落的時期，而是一個嚴重缺乏書面來源的時期。他們對我們來說是“黑暗的”，因為我們沒有那么多關(guān)于他們的信息，而不是因為當時的生活很艱難。

GenghisKhanWayne
When you say "Dark Ages," are you referring to the collapse of a civilization or a period when we went from knowing a lot about a civilization to suddenly having very little recorded history?

當你說“黑暗時代”時，你指的是一個文明的崩潰，還是一個我們從了解一個文明到突然幾乎沒有記錄的歷史的時期？

sartrerian
There are potentially several in Chinese History.
Depending on how you slice it, there’s the spring and autumn period during the eastern Zhou dynasty, which although philosophically and culturally vibrant, was a period of intense internecine violence.
Then there’s the period of disunity between the Jin dynasty of the 3rd century all the way into the late 6th century (which ended with the ascendancy of the Sui dynasty). Though you wouldn’t be off base in putting the start date nearly a hundred years earlier with the fall of the Han. Either way, this one definitely counts as a dark age, at least when compared to the Western European standard.
There’s also the five dynasties and ten kingdoms period between the tang and song dynasties in the 10th century, which was a full on shitshow, but maybe didn’t last long enough to qualify.

中國歷史上可能有幾個黑暗時期。
取決于你如何分割它，在東周的春秋時期，雖然在哲學和文化上充滿活力，但這是一個激烈的內(nèi)部暴力時期。
還有就是3世紀的晉朝一直到6世紀末的分裂時期（以隋朝的崛起而結(jié)束）。雖然你把分裂的起始日期提前一百年，以漢朝的滅亡為起點也不為過。不管怎么說，這個絕對算得上是一個黑暗的時代，至少和西歐的標準相比是這樣。
還有10世紀唐宋之間的五代和十國時期，這也是一個混亂不堪的時代，但可能持續(xù)的時間不足以合格。

rtb001
There is a very clear distinction between the periods of strife in China compared to the dark ages of Europe after the Wall of the western Roman empire.
In China, the periods of chaos always ended with a new dynasty reunifying the entire country, largely with the same form of government. The Han, Jin, Sui/Tang, Song, Ming, and Qing dynasties spanned over 2000 years, and sometimes there might be more than one hundred years of chaos in between the major dynasties, yet each time a very similar form of government and society becomes reconstituted. Absolute monarchy headed by an emperor, passed exclusively through male heirs (with only a single exception), using a vast confucian based beaucracy, with heavy use of eunuchs within the imperial household, usually worshiping the same mixture of buddhism/taoism religion, etc. Some of these dynasties were invaders from the steppes who took over China, yet they still ruled China in much the same way the first Han dynasty emperors did back in the 200s BCE. Even the language didn't change.
That's the difference between China and western Europe. Once Rome fell, it never came back. Maybe Charlemagne or Justinian managed to reconquer parts of the old Roman empire for a few decades, but they soon became fragmented again. The "dark ages" of medi Europe heralded a completely new form of government and society, which would never return to Roman cultural norms.
Europe would remain fragmented all the way through to our modern age, while China remained a united country, despite occasional periods of fragmentation. You can even argue that the current "communist" government of china is actually in many ways still largely based on the old imperial Chinese government model, except only that power no longer stays in the same family, but goes from one paramount leader to another, modern versions of the ancient Chinese emperors.

與西羅馬帝國陷落后的歐洲黑暗時代相比，中國的沖突時期有非常明顯的區(qū)別。
在中國，混亂時期總是以一個新的王朝統(tǒng)一整個國家而結(jié)束，而且大部分是以同樣的政府形式。漢、晉、隋、唐、宋、明、清王朝跨越了2000多年，有時大朝之間可能會有一百多年的混亂，但每次都有一個非常相似的政府和社會形式被重組。以皇帝為首的絕對君主制、專門通過男性繼承人（只有一個例外）繼位、使用以儒家為基礎(chǔ)的龐大官僚體制、在皇室內(nèi)部大量使用太監(jiān)、通常崇拜相同的佛教/道教宗教等。這些王朝中的一些是來自占領(lǐng)中國的草原的侵略者，但他們?nèi)匀灰耘c公元前200年第一個漢朝皇帝相同的方式統(tǒng)治中國。連語言都沒有改變。
這就是中國和西歐的區(qū)別。一旦羅馬淪陷，它就再也沒有回來。也許查理曼或查士丁尼幾十年來設(shè)法重新征服了舊羅馬帝國的一部分，但它們很快又變得支離破碎。中世紀歐洲的“黑暗時代”預示著一種全新的政府和社會形式，它永遠不會回到羅馬的文化規(guī)范。
歐洲一直四分五裂.....

kcazthe1st
For Mesoamerican, there was the Mayan collapse that happened rapidly. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of sources from the time period, but I believe it was a couple hundreds years before the rise of the Aztec, so that interlude could be deemed a Dark Age.
For India, I believe the Rajput period (600s-1100s?) was considered their Dark Age.
For Japan, possibly the Sengoku period, but the Edo period is actually considered a dark age by some historians.

對中美洲人來說，瑪雅人的崩潰發(fā)生得很快。不幸的是，從這段時間來看，沒有太多的信息源，但我相信這是在阿茲特克崛起的幾百年前，所以這個插曲可以被認為是一個黑暗時代。
對于印度，我相信拉杰普特時期(600s-1100s？) 被認為是他們的黑暗時代。
對日本來說，可能是戰(zhàn)國時期，但江戶時期實際上被一些歷史學家認為是一個黑暗時代。

ReshKayden
The comment about the Edo period is interesting because it does highlight a big difference in historians' attitudes towards Japanese culture and "progress."
The camps who use Japan's progress towards modern economic and social systems as the measuring stick of success tend to see it as a "dark ages" where the medi caste system and isolationist policy froze the country in amber and severely weakened it both socially and economically against eventual outside pressure. And that Japan's rapid Western modernization after the Meiji Restoration was a universal good. I'd categorize this as sort of the "Fukuzawa Yukichi" camp of thought.
But there's also the fact that the majority of cultural things now considered "stereotypically Japanese," from tea ceremonies to haiku to geisha to religion to samurai to Hokusai, were all formalized and flourished during the Edo period, once the country was no longer at constant civil war.
The tension between modernization and cultural tradition is an unresolved constant while reading through later Japanese history. While mostly about simple politics and status, one could say the Satsuma Rebellion is an example of this tension. Even still, particularly because of this lack of a black/white definition, I think even those who take a critical eye towards the stagnation of Edo would still hesitate to call it a "Dark Age" on the level of OP's other examples.

關(guān)于江戶時期的評論很有趣，因為它確實突出了歷史學家對此時期日本文化和“進步”的態(tài)度的巨大差異。
將日本在現(xiàn)代經(jīng)濟和社會制度方面的進步作為衡量成功的標準的陣營傾向于將其視為一個“黑暗時代”，中世紀的種姓制度和孤立主義政策使該國成為被凍結(jié)的琥珀，并在社會和經(jīng)濟上嚴重削弱，以抵御最終的外部壓力。而日本在明治維新后迅速的西化現(xiàn)代化被普遍認為是好的。我會把這種想法歸類為“福澤諭吉”思想陣營。
但也有一個事實，現(xiàn)在被認為是“刻板日本人形象”的大多數(shù)文化事物，從茶道、俳句、藝妓、宗教、武士到北海道，都是在江戶時期正式形成并繁榮起來的，在這個時期這個國家也不再有持續(xù)的內(nèi)戰(zhàn)。
在閱讀日本后期歷史時，現(xiàn)代化與文化傳統(tǒng)之間的矛盾是一個無解的常態(tài)。雖然大多是關(guān)于簡單的政治和地位，但可以說薩摩藩的叛亂就是這種緊張局勢的一個例子。即便如此，特別是由于這種缺乏黑白定義的情況下，我想即便是對江戶的停滯采取批判性眼光的人，也會在與OP（樓主）列舉的其他例子的比較下猶豫是否要稱其為 "黑暗時代"。