TED演講者：Susan Cain / 蘇珊·凱恩

演講標題：Why bittersweet emotions underscore life's beauty / 為何苦樂參半的情感讓我們更能體會生活之美？

內(nèi)容概要：Life is a constant state of both joy and sorrow, dark and light, bitter and sweet. In a meditative conversation, author Susan Cain explores how being attuned to the bittersweetness of life -- and being fully present for both the happy times and the sad times -- helps us navigate love and loss and connect to the "insane beauty" of the world. (This conversation, hosted by TED current affairs curator Whitney Pennington Rodgers, was part of an exclusive TED Membership event. Visit ted.com/membership to become a TED Member.)

生活總是充滿快樂與悲傷、黑暗與光明、苦澀與甜蜜。在一次發(fā)人深省的訪談中，作家蘇珊·凱恩（Susan Cain）探討了通過如何適應生活中的苦樂參半，以及如何積極面對生活中歡樂或悲傷的時刻，幫助我們駕馭愛，勇敢面對失去，并與世界的“瘋狂之美”聯(lián)結(jié)起來。（這次訪談由TED時事策展人惠特尼·彭寧頓·羅杰斯（Whitney Pennington Rodgers）主持，是TED會員獨家活動的一部分。請訪問TED.com/Membership成為TED會員。）

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【1】Susan Cain: The idea of bittersweetness is that we live in a constant state, all humans do, it's a constant state of a kind of existence simultaneously of joy and sorrow, dark and light, bitter and sweet.

蘇珊.凱恩: 苦樂參半指的是 我們總是生活在這樣一種狀態(tài)中, 所有人都是如此, 這是一種同時感受到 喜悅與悲傷,黑暗與光明, 痛苦與歡樂的持續(xù)狀態(tài)。

【2】And then what comes with that is a heightened awareness of impermanence in all things, and also a kind of curiously piercing joy at the beauty of the world.

然后隨之而來的是 意識到所有這些的短暫性, 還有一種對世界之美的深切喜悅。

【3】Because there's something about having this deep awareness that the joy comes with sorrow, the sorrow comes with joy, that makes us really attuned to the insane beauty all around us.

因為正是意識到喜悅中有痛苦, 痛苦中也有喜悅, 我們才能真正適應和感受 我們身邊的美。

【4】You know, I think the Stoics come at that from one point of view.

從某種角度來說,斯多葛學派 也是這樣來思考問題的。

【5】You know, there's the stoic idea of, they would call it memento mori, to remember all the time that we could die tomorrow, we don't know what's going to happen.

有個被稱為“銘記死亡”的 斯多葛學派思想, 時刻提醒人們,我們明天 也許就將面臨死亡, 我們不知道將會發(fā)生什么。

【6】And that's a way of both calming us down and also making life feel a little more precious.

這既讓我們平靜下來, 又讓我們覺得人生更加可貴。

【7】So you know, the Stoics come at it from that point of view.

所以你知道,斯多葛學派 從這個角度來思考問題。

【8】I don't know that I think of myself as a Stoic explicitly, but I do feel there's something about being aware of life's fragility that situates us exactly where we should be.

坦率地講,我不知道自己 算不算斯多葛學派, 不過,我的確覺得有什么東西 讓我意識到生命的脆弱, 并將我們置于我們該在的位置上。

【9】Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Why do you think art is a way that we see bittersweetness being expressed really masterfully?

惠特尼.彭寧頓.羅杰斯: 你為什么認為 藝術(shù)在表達苦樂參半方面 非常適合呢？

【10】SC: I believe that all humans ...

蘇:我認為所有人……

【11】That the most fundamental aspect of our humanity is that we all have a kind of longing for a state that I call the perfect and beautiful world.

我們?nèi)诵宰畋举|(zhì)的一方面就是 我們都有追求完美、 美好世界的渴望。

【12】You know, like in "The Wizard of Oz," it's called "somewhere over the rainbow,"

你知道,就像在《綠野仙蹤》里, 這被稱為“彩虹彼端”,

【13】all religions have their own name for it, my favorite is the Sufi name of the beloved of the soul.

不同的信仰對此有不同的叫法, 我最喜歡的是“靈魂所愛”, 這是蘇菲派的叫法。

【14】And what creativity really is at the end of the day is an expression of that longing for a more perfect and beautiful world.

歸根結(jié)底, 創(chuàng)造力是對更完美、更美好世界的 渴望的表達。

【15】You know, what an artist or a musician is doing, is they're having a vision of ...

你知道,藝術(shù)家或音樂家在做的, 是他們看到了......

【16】You know, the gap between the world that we're in and the world that they longed to be in and therefore to create.

我們所生活的世界和 他們渴望的世界之間的差距, 并由此去創(chuàng)造。

【17】And so whether you're talking about a violin piece or a rocket to Mars, there's really no difference between those two things.

所以不論你是談論小提琴樂章, 還是發(fā)射到火星的火箭, 這兩者其實真的沒有差別。

【18】Like, the word longing itself, the etymology of it literally means to reach for, you know, to grow longer and to reach for.

就好像“渴望”這個詞本身, 按詞源,字面意思是去觸及,抵達,

【19】And that's what we're doing when we're creative.

這就是我們在富有創(chuàng)造力的時候 在做的事情。

【20】And I do want to hasten to say that ...

我特別想強調(diào)的是 ......

【21】You don't need to compose a symphony that people are going to be listening to hundreds of years later.

你不需要譜寫數(shù)百年后, 人們?nèi)栽谛蕾p的交響樂章。

【22】You don't have to build the rocket to Mars in order to express that fundamental human creativity.

你不需要建造發(fā)射到火星的火箭 來證明人類的創(chuàng)造力。

【23】You could be sitting at home and drawing a picture or baking a pie.

你可以只是呆在家里 畫一幅畫或者烤一個派。

【24】It doesn't really matter.

真的沒關(guān)系。

【25】Like, all these different actions are expressions of our longing and of our better nature.

就好像,所有這些行為就是在表達 我們的渴望和我們向上的本性。

【26】I believe that the art and the music and the nature and religion and spirituality are all just different manifestations of the same thing.

我認為繪畫、音樂 以及自然、宗教、靈性, 都僅僅是相同事物的不同體現(xiàn)。

【27】And what that thing is, we probably all have to define for ourselves, but it is the most fundamental drive in all of human nature.

至于究竟是什么,也許我們 得為我們自己來下這個定義。 不過這是人類本性 最本質(zhì)的驅(qū)動力。

【28】And I believe our best one, you know, it's the one that leads to creativity, but also to connection and to love.

我認為我們擁有的、最好的, 就是那些不僅引領(lǐng)我們?nèi)?chuàng)新, 而且?guī)ьI(lǐng)我們?nèi)ヂ?lián)結(jié), 去愛的力量。

【29】Like, I literally -- sorry to go on with this question, but I literally have sitting taped up in front of me in my office right now ...

就像,我真的很抱歉要 繼續(xù)談論這個問題, 不過事實上,我正坐在我的 辦公室里,看著貼在前面的

【30】A quotation from the poet Jalāl al-Dīn Rūmī, who was a Sufi poet, and I'm going to quote it for you, but I'm just going to set the context of the poem.

蘇菲派詩人哲拉魯丁.魯米的一段話。 我來讀給你聽, 不過,我先來介紹一下 這首詩的背景。

【31】It's basically ...

基本上......

【32】It's about a man who is praying to Allah, and a cynical person comes along and asks him, "Why are you praying?

它講述的是一個人向安拉禱告, 一個憤世嫉俗的人經(jīng)過并問他, “你為什么要禱告？

【33】You never got an answer back, did you?

你從未得到過回應,不是嗎？

【34】So why are you praying?"

那你為什么還要禱告呢？”

【35】And the man thinks about it and is troubled by the cynic's observation.

這個人想了想, 因這憤世嫉俗者的一番話而憂慮。

【36】And he falls into a fitful sleep during which he's visited by Khidr, the guide of souls, who says to him, "Why did you stop praying?"

故而時醒時睡,就在這半夢半醒間, 靈魂指引者希德爾來到夢中對他說, “你為什么停止禱告呢？”

【37】And he said, "Well, you know, God never answered me, Allah never answered."

他回答說:“嗯,你知道, 神從未回應過我, 安拉從未回應過我?！?/p>

【38】And this is what Khidr says to him, he says, and now I'm quoting from the poem itself, "This longing you express is the return message.

下面是希德爾對他說的話, 我現(xiàn)在讀這首詩給你聽, “你所表達的渴求 就是回應的信息,

【39】The grief you cry out from draws you toward union.

你呼求哭喊的悲傷將你帶入合一,

【40】Your pure sadness that wants help is the secret cup."

你那渴求幫助的純粹悲傷 就是這神秘的杯子”。

【41】And I have this taped up in my office because I believe that ...

我把這句話貼在我的辦公室里, 因為我相信,

【42】I believe that that's the truth, whether we consider ourselves atheists or believers or somewhere in between.

我相信這就是真理。 無論我們是否認為自己是無神論者 或信徒,或介于兩者之間,

【43】To me, is a false dichotomy.

對我來說,這是一個偽二分法。

【44】WPR: It's beautiful.

惠:這很美。

【45】Can you share a little bit more about the process that went into writing this book and how you ultimately found yourself in this place where bittersweet was the end product?

你可以分享一點 寫作這本書的過程 以及你如何在苦樂參半中 最終找到你自己？

【46】SC: As most of us do, I come from a heritage of love and loss.

蘇:和大部人一樣,我成長中 經(jīng)歷過愛與缺失。

【47】In my case, most members of my family, the previous generations, were killed in the Holocaust.

我的情況是, 我的家人、前輩人中大部分 死于納粹大屠殺。

【48】On my mother's side and my father's side.

父親一方和母親一方都是如此。

【49】You know, I explore in the book the whole phenomenon of inherited grief, how it transmits to us, both culturally and epigenetically.

我在這本書中探索這份血液中 流淌著的悲傷所呈現(xiàn)出的所有表象, 以及這悲傷如何在文化和表觀遺傳 兩方面?zhèn)鬟f給我們的。

【50】And so I think that that's a kind of unconscious backdrop that had been with me from the beginning.

所以我覺得這好像是起初就 跟隨我的、無意識的幕布。

【51】Of just having a sense of kind of, like a tragic view of life, but also a view that I kind of, just can't believe how beautiful it is sometimes.

有一種對人生的悲觀視角, 不過有時候也不敢相信這有多美。

【52】So I'm sort of holding those two things at the same time.

所以我有點同時握著 這兩樣的感覺。

【53】And yeah, so I just had all these questions about how to make sense of this paradox of life.

所以我才有這些 關(guān)于如何讓這自相矛盾的生活 能夠有意義的問題。

【54】And so I just went off on this five-year journey.

所以我才踏上了這段 歷時五年的旅程。

【55】I mean, I went and talked to Pete Docter, who is the director at Pixar, who created the movie "Inside Out,"

我去找彼特.道格特 （Pete Docter）交流, 他是執(zhí)導皮克斯《頭腦特工隊》的導演。

【56】which is a movie that's really all about sadness and the positive value that sadness has in our lives.

這部動畫其實是關(guān)于悲傷以及 悲傷帶給我們的積極價值。

【57】And as I say, I explored all these wisdom traditions.

就像我說的,我在探索所有這些 充滿智慧傳統(tǒng)學說。

【58】I went and talked to neuroscientists.

我去找神經(jīng)學家交流。

【59】I spent a lot of time with a psychologist named Dacher Keltner, who's done all this fascinating, groundbreaking work on what he calls your inner compassionate instinct and how we're basically evolutionarily designed to react to the sadness of other beings.

我花了很多時間和心理學家達契爾.克特納 （Dacher Keltner）在一起討論, 他在稱之為“內(nèi)在同理心本能” 以及我們?nèi)绾芜M化 來對他人的悲傷做出反應這些方面 做出了卓越、具有突破性的工作。

【60】And this comes from the fact that we're creatures who have to take care of our young like, we don't survive if we don't do that.

這就引出了一個事實, 也就是我們是一種需要照料 我們中幼小同類的物種, 如果我們不這樣做, 我們就無法生存。

【61】And so that means that we're primed to respond to the cries of babies.

也就是說我們本能地 就要回應嬰兒的哭泣聲。

【62】Except it radiates out from there.

除非它從這里四散開去,

【63】We don't only respond to our own baby's tears, we end up responding to other babies, and we also end up responding to other beings in general.

我們不僅回應 我們自己嬰兒的眼淚, 我們還會對 其他人嬰兒的哭聲有回應, 總體來說,我們也會對 其他生物做出回應。

【64】And we definitely do not get this right, because we also, as Darwin had noticed, Darwin said, we have this deep, compassionate instinct, but we also have obviously this propensity to these astonishing acts of cruelty.

我們絕對沒有正確了解這一點, 因為正如達爾文注意到的, 達爾文說,我們有深切 富有同理心的本能。 但我們也顯然有殘暴的習性。

【65】So both of these things are part of us.

這兩者都在我們身上存在。

【66】And ...

并且,

【67】And the question becomes, how do we most draw on the compassionate side of our deeper instincts?

這問題就成了我們?nèi)绾?最大程度地發(fā)掘 我們更深層本能中同理心的一面？

【68】WPR: There's a question here from Miriam where they ask just about how we can be present for each other as we're feeling different emotions.

惠:這有一個來自米里亞姆的提問, 他們想知道因為我們 體會著不同的情感, 我們該如何為彼此進行描述？

【69】The question specifically is, "Can we be fully present for one another if one is experiencing sadness and the other is happiness?"

這個問題可以具體為, “如果我們中的一個正經(jīng)歷悲傷, 另一個人則經(jīng)歷開心, 我們能完全彼此同理嗎？”

【70】SC: Yeah, I think the answer is to be fully present for each other.

我認為答案是我們 可以為彼此全然同理。

【71】And I'll tell you one little hack that I've developed for that.

我會告訴你 我為此開發(fā)出來的雇傭文人。

【72】I don't know if hack is the right word.

我不知道“雇傭文人” 是不是一個合適的詞。

【73】But there's this amazing video that went viral a few years ago.

不過幾年前有個很棒的視頻。

【74】It was put out by the Cleveland Clinic Hospital.

上傳這視頻的是克利夫蘭診所 （Cleveland Clinic Hospital）。

【75】And this was a video that they put together to teach empathy to their caregivers.

這個視頻是他們做的合集來教 護工們學習同理心的。

【76】And the way they did this, is they had a camera kind of, moving through the corridors of the hospital, lingering for a moment on the face of this passer-by or that passer-by.

他們采用的方式是, 他們有一個類似相機的東西, 在醫(yī)院的各個走廊里面移動, 在這里或那里路過的人的臉上逗留一會兒。

【77】Just the way you do in normal life, right?

就像你平時會做的那樣,你會這樣做,對嗎？

【78】You're like, walking through and you just see people as you go and you're not really thinking that much about it.

就像你走這路,然后你會看路過的人, 你其實并沒有多想。

【79】Except that in the case of this video, they had little captions underneath each random person that you were passing by.

除了在這個視頻里面, 他們會給路過的人隨機做些批注。

【80】And sometimes the captions were joyful ones, like, "just learned that he's going to be a father for the first time."

有時,給予他們的批注是令人愉悅的, 比如,“剛得知他即將初為人父”。

【81】But because we're in a hospital, more often the captions are not so joyful.

不過因為我們是在醫(yī)院, 大部分 情況給予路人的批注并不開心。

【82】And it's things like, you know, caption under a little girl saying goodbye to her father for the last time.

你知道,這種情況就像, 批注寫著一個小女孩正 向父親做最后的告別,

【83】It's things like that.

就是像這樣的情景。

【84】And you cannot watch this video without tearing up.

你沒有辦法看著 這樣的視頻不流眼淚。

【85】It's impossible.

那是不可能的。

【86】Which is why it went viral.

這也是為什么這個視頻 流傳很廣的原因。

【87】You also become aware, as you're watching it, you're not only tearing up, you literally are having the sensation of expanding chest muscles.

你看的時候也會意識到這一點, 你不只是流眼淚, 你真的感受到胸腔肌肉的擴張。

【88】Like, you can feel it physically and literally.

就好像,你的身體和頭腦 都真實地感受到。

【89】And ...

并且,

【90】And we actually know from the work of Dacher Keltner, who I was just talking about, that we have our vagus nerve, which is the biggest bundle of nerves in our body, and it governs our most fundamental instincts, like breathing and digestion.

從達契爾.克特納所做的工作 我們得知, 就是我剛談論的那位, 我們使我們的迷走神經(jīng)緊張, 這是我們身體中最龐大的神經(jīng)組織, 它支配著我們最基本的本能, 比如,呼吸和消化。

【91】You know it's really basic.

你知道,這很基本。

【92】But your vagus nerve also responds and fires up when it sees somebody else in distress.

不過你的迷走神經(jīng) 也會做出反應,并且 當看到有人處在困境的時候 會被激發(fā)。

【93】So you know, this is a very deep and fundamental impulse.

所以你知道,這是非常深刻 和基本的沖動。

【94】And what I take from the lesson of that Cleveland Clinic video is just the simple exercise of imagining what people's captions are as you walk through the world.

我從克利夫蘭診所視頻 所學到的功課就是, 做這樣一個簡單的練習, 想象當你在世間行走時, 你會如何看待身邊的事物,

【95】You know, you don't necessarily know them.

你知道的,你并不一定要認識他們,

【96】But now I'll go into a grocery store and as the person's ringing up my groceries, I'm thinking, what's her caption?

不過我現(xiàn)在要走進一家超市, 那人為我買的東西結(jié)賬時, 我在想,我會給她寫句什么配文呢？

【97】What is it?

是什么呢？

【98】And it's a completely different way of interacting with people once you do that.

你一旦開始這樣做, 你與人的互動方式就會完全不一樣。

【99】WPR: And connected to this, Gordon asks how your experience with the pandemic and lockdown informed the writing of the book.

關(guān)于這一點, 戈登提問,疫情和封城的經(jīng)歷, 如何影響你這本書的寫作。

【100】Did it change the book from what you initially envisioned it to be?

這改變了這本書最初的寫作構(gòu)思嗎？

【101】SC: My father and my brother actually passed away from COVID quite early during the pandemic.

蘇:事實上,我的父親和哥哥 在疫情早期的時候, 就因染疫過世了。

【102】There's something about grappling with these subjects for years, as I had been doing, that actually helped me pass through those particular moments and weather those particular moments.

其實這些主題我已經(jīng)糾結(jié)了很久, 這其實幫助我度過了 那些特殊的時刻。

【103】I guess I'll just give you one specific example.

我可以講一個具體的例子。

【104】So one of the wisdom traditions that I found most illuminating, and I wrote about this in the book, it's the one that Leonard Cohen's song comes from, you know, the idea of light coming from the crack in everything.

我發(fā)覺其中一個智慧思想 最具啟發(fā)性, 我在書里也寫了這個, 這也是萊昂納德.科恩 （Leonard Cohen）歌曲的靈感, 關(guān)于萬物皆有裂痕, 那是光照進來的地方。

【105】So he got that from the Kabbalah, which is the mystical side of the Jewish tradition.

所以他從卡巴拉, 也就是猶太傳統(tǒng)的神秘一面獲得

【106】And one of the fundamental stories in the Kabbalah is the idea that all of creation originally was one divine vessel of light that ultimately shattered and that now we're living in the world after the shattering.

猶太教的神秘釋經(jīng)學里 根本的故事之一,即 萬物最初都是圣光而來, 最終破碎。 而我們現(xiàn)在就生活 在破碎后的世界當中。

【107】But these divine shards of light are still scattered all around us, and they're buried in the mud all around us.

不過這些圣光碎片 仍散落在我們周圍, 在我們周圍被埋藏在泥土里。

【108】And so our job is to walk through the world and pick up the shards where we can and maybe shine them up a little bit.

所以我們的工作 就是要在世間行走, 撿起那些我們能找到的光的碎片, 并讓它們更亮一點。

【109】And the beauty is that I'm going to see one set of shards, but you're going to notice completely different ones.

我覺得很美的是我 將看到一組碎片, 不過你會發(fā)現(xiàn)它們完全不同。

【110】So we all go around and pick up our own.

所以我們都出去找, 然后撿起我們屬于我們自己的。

【111】When my father passed away from COVID, I started reflecting on his life and ...

當我父親因新冠疫情過世時, 我開始回顧他的人生......

【112】My father was a person who ...

我父親是這樣一個人......

【113】He was a doctor and a med school professor, and he worked really, really hard and did great work.

他是位醫(yī)生,醫(yī)學院教授, 他工作極其努力, 并做出了很多貢獻。

【114】And at the same time that he did all that, he also would perform these, you could call them senseless acts of beauty, maybe.

他做這些的同時, 他還會做其他事情, 也許你可以稱之為 無意義的美好舉動。

【115】He loved orchids, so he built a greenhouse full of orchids in our basement.

他愛蘭花, 所以他在我們的地下室建了 一個滿是蘭花的溫室。

【116】For really no reason other than that he loved orchids.

除了愛蘭花,真的沒有其他原因。

【117】And so he grew them and gazed at them.

他種植蘭花,凝視它們。

【118】And he loved the French language, so he learned how to speak French, even though he had no time to visit France and rarely did.

他愛法語, 所以他就學習法語, 即使他沒時間去法國。

【119】But he would sit there and learn it and loved the act of learning it.

不過他還是坐在那里學習法語, 并喜愛學習法語這件事本身。

【120】And there were so many different things like this that he did.

他還做過很多類似的事情,

【121】And when he died, I started thinking about all those acts of beauty that he had performed in his work and in these seemingly senseless acts of beauty.

他過世的時候,我開始思考所有 那些他在工作中做過的美好舉動。 以及這些看起來無意義的美好行為。

【122】And I framed them all as shards that he had been picking up all his life.

我認為這就是他在他的人生中 撿起來的、閃光的碎片。

【123】And ...

并且,

【124】That was, yeah, that was a really helpful way of thinking of him and remembering him and bringing me to some form of peace with his loss.

那真的,真的是, 思念他的很有幫助的方式。 也在失去他之后, 帶給我一絲平和,

【125】WPR: As we slowly come out of the pandemic, how can we better normalize talking about loss and talking about these feelings that you've mentioned our culture sort of shies away from?

我們正慢慢從疫情當中走出來, 如何才能更自如地去 談論所失去的, 以及關(guān)于你提到的、 逝去的、文化的感受呢？

【126】SC: Well, I think it's really helpful to start in our organizations.

我認為在我們的組織中 先開始是非常有幫助的。

【127】I mean, we can obviously start privately, which in some ways is the easiest because we don't have to corral anybody else to do it.

我的意思是,當然, 我們那可以從個人開始。 從某些方面來說,這樣也最容易。 因為我們不用去了解其他人做什么。

【128】But in our organizations, there are small steps that we can take.

但在我們的組織中, 有些我們可以采取的小步驟,

【129】So I'm thinking, for example, I do a lot of public speaking, lately Zoom talks, where I come in and talk about introversion and I guess now bittersweetness.

所以我想,比如 我做很多的公開演講。 最近我在 Zoom 對話中談到了內(nèi)向, 現(xiàn)在我想該是苦樂參半。

【130】Anyway, I did one not that long ago, it was a Zoom call.

不管怎樣,我不久 前剛做完一個 Zoom 通話。

【131】And we were talking about the power of introverts.

我們談論內(nèi)向人的力量。

【132】And the call started with a chat, just the way this one did.

那個對話從一個聊天開始, 就像我們這個一樣。

【133】And the organizer asked them questions like, "How's everybody feeling today?"

組織者問他們問題,比如, “大家覺得今天怎么樣？”

【134】And everybody typed in, you know, "I'm feeling great."

然后每個人都打字回復, 比如說,“我覺得棒極了”。

【135】'"I'm feeling excited," "I'm feeling joyful,"

“我覺得好興奮”, “我覺得很開心”,

【136】feeling all these things.

類似這些的感受。

【137】And I love it.

我非常喜歡,

【138】If they were in fact feeling that way, that's awesome.

如果他們真的有這樣的感受, 那就太棒了。

【139】And I also ask, what is the chance that everybody truly was feeling that way?

我也問大家,大家真的 有這樣的感受的幾率有多少？

【140】This long list of people coming into the chat, what's the chance that was accurate?

在聊天框里面回復的人有一長串。 這個是真實的幾率有多少？

【141】Maybe zero percent?

也許是零。

【142】I would love to see us develop ways, and maybe the way to start is with anonymous chats or an option to be anonymous in chats, but for organizers and for team leaders and so on to be asking, "What are you all truly feeling?"

我想看到我們想出些方法, 也許一開始是匿名聊天, 或者在聊天時選擇匿名, 除了組織者,小組領(lǐng)隊以及 被要求的以外。 “你真實的感受是什么？”

【143】'"What are you going through right now?"

“你正經(jīng)歷著什么？”

【144】And again, maybe anonymous and maybe not.

下一次,也許匿名,也許不要匿名。

【145】When we're gathering in person, we could have whiteboards up.

當我們面對面聚在一起, 我們可以立起白板,

【146】In schools they sometimes do this and they call it a parking lot, where people could just write down what they're going through that day, the joys and the sorrows, so that people start becoming aware of kind of like, the normality of what actual experience is.

學校里,他們有時會這樣做, 他們稱之為停車位, 在上面人們只是寫下 他們即將經(jīng)歷什么。 歡樂與痛苦, 所以人們開始意識到 真正的經(jīng)歷的本來樣貌。

【147】We as a society need to figure out how we can start telling the truth of what it's like to be alive.

我們作為一個社會需要知道 我們?nèi)绾文軌蜷_始 訴說生活的真實樣貌,

【148】That's what I would say.

那就是我想說的。

【149】I mean, that's actually the reason I write books, that's how I always think of it.

我的意思是, 那就是我寫這本書的真實初衷。 那就是我如果能夠總是想著這個,

【150】It's like there's really no point other than telling a truth that isn't otherwise being spoken out loud.

這就像除了講出那些 原本難以說出口的真心話, 其他的內(nèi)容并無實質(zhì)性意義。

【151】And there's also an incredible safety in numbers, you know.

你知道,獲得多數(shù)人贊同 就會有安全感。

【152】Once lots of people start talking about the same thing, it suddenly becomes OK to tell that particular truth of what it's like to be alive.

一旦很多人都開始談論同一件事, 突然間談論關(guān)于什么才是 生活的真實就變得正常了。

【153】So we have to just find ways of telling it and then more and more people will share it.

所以我們要找到方法來講述, 接著就有越來越多的人分享,